When is a Vase a Bowl?

[Duncan A]

Possibly a silly question this, but here goes.

Vases are usually made with the grain in line with the axis, but bowls are usually made with the grain perpendicular to the axis.

Why is this?

Looking at Soren Berger's wooden lampshade video on the link posted by EnErY yesterday, I found myself thinking that essentially he was making a vase without a bottom - but it looked more like a bowl without a bottom.
Fantastic lampshade, he certainly made it look easy.

Duncan

 

[Bodrighy]

The difference between a vase and a bowl is purely the purpose to which it is put. A vase is defined as a vessel that is used as ornament or for putting flowers in, a bowl generally is a vessel that is for holding anything from food to liquids or anything between but basically is wider than it is deep though this can vary a bit. Orientation of the grain etc are not defining it. The purpose for usually aligning the grain as you mention is purely for strength and sometimes the aesthetics.
Pete

 

[Jacob]

Possibly a silly question this, but here goes.

Vases are usually made with the grain in line with the axis, but bowls are usually made with the grain perpendicular to the axis.

Why is this?....

As a rule vases are taller and would need much thicker timber than a bowl, if turned from the thickness rather than the length.

 

[KimG]

I think the size of the opening would also be a factor, a large easily accessible opening allowing full use of the interior would class the object as a bowl, a smaller more restrictive offering would make it more of a vase, hollow forms, generally, are much more vase like than bowl like.

 

[Jacob]

I think the size of the opening would also be a factor, a large easily accessible opening allowing full use of the interior would class the object as a bowl, a smaller more restrictive offering would make it more of a vase, hollow forms, generally, are much more vase like than bowl like.

Hmm dunno you can have flower vases which aren't restricted (think "tall thin bowl"). It's the length. You couldn't easily eat your porage from a vase, so it wouldn't do as a bowl. Would a long spoon turn a vase into a bowl?
Hollow forms can be any shape, they just have to be hollow and have form.

 

[Silverbirch]

Would a long spoon turn a vase into a bowl

A sundae dish, more like.

Ian

 

[John51]

If the flowers fall over, I'd call it a bowl.

 

[Duncan A]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

I think the flowers falling over is as good a test as any!

Pete, you mention strength, which I wondered about - especially as simply taking a log and hollowing it out across the majority of its diameter would leave the pith in the centre. I have some ash rounds that are about 500mm dia, but only about 150mm "long" so I may give one of them a try once I've improved my skills from their present very basic level and see how it comes out.

Duncan

 

[Bodrighy]

It is quite feasible to turn a bowl into the end grain. The main problem would be if the heart wood is soft or prone to splitting. It is more of a problem the other way, turning a long piece be it a vase or spindle with the end grain along the side, then it can be very weak and prone to snapping.

Pete

 

[Duncan A]

I can see that end grain on the side of a vase could cause a lot of problems but it may be worth trying a bowl with end grain on the bottom, just to see how it turns out ...and of course the heartwood wouldn't cause problems with a lampshade so may also give that a go in due course.

Duncan

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I turned a bowl of end grain wych elm many moons ago, and it was a pig to turn and an even bigger pig to finish. If the wood doesn't doesn't split from the rim inwards, the rim is likely to pull in and make the base hollow, so try to be sure to design the base so that it can easily be flattened, or your bowl will rock.

 

[tekno.mage]

If the flowers fall over, I'd call it a bowl.

But surely this test depends upon the length of the stems? Also, you should define that the use of that strange green florists "foam" be disallowed - as you can make flowers with very long stems stand up on a chopping board using that! Wire should also be disallowed from the test

My personal distinctions would be...

If it will not hold liquid at all (ie it has holes in), it's art and in which case just call it whatever the artist does.

If it will hold liquid and it's tall, thin and has a narrow opening in the top - vase.
If it has flowers in already - vase.

If it will hold liquid and it's short, wide and has a wide opening in the top - bowl.
If it has soup or food in already - bowl.

If it has a candle sticking out the top - candlestick.

If it has a long narrow stem - goblet or wine glass

If it's full or tea or coffee - mug.

If it's vaguely cylindrical, may or may not have a handle on the side and is full of beer - pint glass

 

[Jacob]

If the flowers fall over, I'd call it a bowl.

But surely this test depends upon the length of the stems? Also, you should define that the use of that strange green florists "foam" be disallowed - as you can make flowers with very long stems stand up on a chopping board using that! Wire should also be disallowed from the test

My personal distinctions would be...

If it will not hold liquid at all (ie it has holes in), it's art and in which case just call it whatever the artist does.

If it will hold liquid and it's tall, thin and has a narrow opening in the top - vase.
If it has flowers in already - vase.

If it will hold liquid and it's short, wide and has a wide opening in the top - bowl.
If it has soup or food in already - bowl.

If it has a candle sticking out the top - candlestick.

If it has a long narrow stem - goblet or wine glass

If it's full or tea or coffee - mug.

If it's vaguely cylindrical, may or may not have a handle on the side and is full of beer - pint glass

You missed "urns" sometimes referred to pretentiously as "hollow forms" :lol: :lol:
Bring back the urn!

NB an urn is basically a fat vase, often with a lid. Handy for holding funeral ashes, or pickled onions.

PS and "Rowntree's Quality Street"

 

[KimG]

"It's only art if it's got an Urn in it nobby, an' a plinth" Sgt Colon.

 

[Gary Morris]

I call them whatever comes to mind, they've never answered back or complained.