What to buy?

[MJP]

Thanks Blockplane.

Yes, I've discovered Lathes.co.uk and I'll be getting a couple of lathe books shortly.

I understand the "old vs new" argument but bear in mind that I know nothing about lathes and could easily buy a pup - as Bob said, with Myfords for example, there do appear to be some very rough old dogs being offered for £600 to £800 and since I will be buying more or less blind, it's all a bit risky.

I think I'm more or less settled on either a new "Mini lathe" or a second hand item which is such a bargain that if it turned out to be a dog then I can swallow it.

And of course, I have no idea why I want a lathe anyway, so whatever I buy could either be just the job or exactly the opposite!

Martin.

 

[AES]

Martin, +1 for Blockplane's post about the Sparey book. It's an old book, has some lathe tools in it that you're unlikely to ever see, BUT it's a goldmine of basic "how to" info for beginner's - stuff that does NOT "age harden"!

Glad you've found the Lathes web site.

Getting interesting, isn't it?

AES

 

[MJP]

Just like always AES - begin a new facet of practical work and you fall through the rabbit hole!

I've just ordered a copy of Sparey's book and I think I've more or less decided what I'm going to buy.

Until someone changes my mind again...

Martin.

 

[MJP]

Regarding Blockplane's comment on the BackGear - I've now read this up on the Lathes website (and what a goldmine of information that site is!) I think I do need this - I imagine myself making little twiddly knobs and things and the need to thread them on occasion sounds likely.

Can I take it that the Chinese minilathes will not do threading? Are there any that actually can do this?

Will the Warco WM180, with variable speed down to zero (or so they claim) have enough torque to do thread cutting?

Am I destined to *have to* buy an old lathe - an ML10 or suchlike to be able to thread?

So many questions...

Martin.

 

[Blockplane]

Unless you are cutting chunky square or acme threads - leadscrews, vice/clamp screws etc, you wion't need that much torque - it is the slow speed that counts.

There is one way of getting round lack of backgear on a small lathe - use a hand crank mounted on the outboard end of the mandrel. I doubt they are made as accessories for the Far-Eastern lathes though, so you will need to improvise.

If you are wanting to thread the stems of small knobs, a tailstock mounted die holder is the way to got - which makes me think of another point.......... the smaller the lathe, the smaller the Morse Taper in the head and tailstock, which limits the number of accessories you can use. As a case in point, said die holders are readily available in 2MT, but i've only seen one with a no 1 taper, and that was on fleabay last week. - having said that, once you have a lathe you can make your own drgs on page 56 of the Sparey book.

 

[MJP]

OK - so chances are that the Warco WM180 will do the job then.

And it's 2MT as well, which helps I suppose.

I'm really getting into much deeper water here than I had at first anticipated - we've gone a long way from "I fancy a little lathe" to "slow enough for threading".

But I'm learning all the time, and the more I learn, the less chance I have of buying something totally unsuitable.

Martin.

 

[AES]

NO, ALL the mini lathes that I know about WILL cut threads, wind coils, etc - UNLESS you're doing big chunky square or Acme threads that is. And I don't think you're looking for that, are you? Otherwise you're back to the big boys machines.

And backgear is not necessary on these lathes because of the electronic speed control, which typically goes down to about 50 or 60 rpm, which is fine for that work if the diameters are within the capacity of the lathe. The only "problem" is that the speed control does reduce the torque available, but this is a SMALL lathe, so as above, unless you're doing big chunky threads, it's not a problem in reality.

And on the US Mini Lathe web site you'll see at least 1 article on how to make a manual handle for turning the lead screw by hand (and Arc, amongst others has all the bits you need). But although I mean to make that mod "some fine wet day" I have cut some threads with the lathe in low speed without problems, so in my reality anyway, a manual lead screw falls into the "nice to have" rather than the "must have" category.

ALSO my mini lathe has MT 2 and 3 tapers, so NO problem with accessories such as centres, die holders, etc - plenty available, again Arc amongst others.

AES

 

[MJP]

OK then - so anything half decent as long as it's MT2.

I've gone around the houses these past couple of days...Sieg...Warco...ML10...and back again.

I'll keep an eye out for used machines for a while, see what's about.

I might end up with an ML7 after all!

Martin.

 

[dickm]

No idea about Warco these days, but our University workshop bought one of their "Super 7 Copies" back in the early 90s and it was carp. Lots of red faces and the budget had to be upped significantly.

 

[J-G]

No idea about Warco these days, but our University workshop bought one of their "Super 7 Copies" back in the early 90s and it was carp. Lots of red faces and the budget had to be upped significantly.

One can only speak as one finds and I had avoided WARCO for many years - based on similar reports - before looking seriously at their milling machines last year.

I had done a deal of research and settled upon the Chester Equivalent but during my visit to the Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition in October I ventured onto the WARCO stand and became conflicted !!

There were a few minor differences in the spec. but ultimately I switched to the WARCO unit - I think the 'show deal' might have had a bearing

On unpacking and setting up I was happy with it, noting the 'touch-up' paint supplied "in case of transit scuffs". The problem came about when nothing happened at 'Switch On' - not even power lights or speed display - checking the two fuses didn't resolve it. An e-mail elicited a quick phone call from them which resulted in the solution that the 'Emergency Switch' could well have been pressed. Sure enough that was the problem. It was the first 'New' machine I'd bought since "EU 'elf & safety" had reared its ugly head so wasn't aware of the need to protect one from oneself

I've had no reason to complain about any aspect of it - but it is less than 12 months old.

 

[AES]

Yeah, there's lots of conflicting advice about, so I do sympathise with the OP. In my case, like him, I "just fancied" a lathe (had done for a long time), so when I saw mine in the local DIY Emporium at a GOOD price 7 or 8 years ago now, I just plunged, and then did my research afterwards. Never regretted it once - but perhaps I was just lucky?

As it happens, I was lucky, 'cos as I said in my original post in reply to the OP (Martin), the purchase, and the subsequent tooling and accessories have (and still do) delight me every day. Not saying I wouldn't want a Myford (or even bigger), AND a mill too please - PRETTY PLEASE!!! - but fact is, budgets DO have to be considered (OAP and all that).

There's no doubt there's some good S/H stuff about, IF you know what you're doing, but going into it blind, like the OP is right now, my own advice would be buy new - and from a reputable dealer too.

That's because from all I read and hear, there's a lot of "S/H big trouble" around as well as the good, fully-tooled bargains, while again, from all I've read & heard, these days, the Chinese can - and do - produce a lot new of bang for the buck - and with reasonable quality too.

In fact, in my own case, even allowing for 7 or 8 years of inflation, and for the DIY shop special deal, I have ended up with a workable set up which serves me well, all for a total sum of roughly one quarter of the 4K-odd £s that I've seen advertised for Myfords recently - and that's including all the bits and pieces, as opposed to a "bare" Myford!

I guess that as always, "yer pays yer money and takes yer choice", but in his position, with the names he's mentioning, he won't go too far wrong IMO - unless he winds up in a couple of years seeing himself building a 10 inch gauge live steam loco or something! In which case he'll still have something "almost new" to sell on at a reasonable price.

HTH Martin.

AES

 

[MJP]

Dickm, J-G thanks.

I think both these comments reflect what others have said - that early Chinese lathes were rubbish - early 90s was a long time ago - but that present-day quality is considerably better if you stick to established suppliers.

It reinforces my intention not to buy a second hand Chinese offering unless I'm very certain that it's of recent date, so likely to be of decent quality.

Martin.

 

[MJP]

AES - thanks, just seen your post and it pretty well summarises how I see it now, thanks to everyone's most helpful contributions.

Bearing in mind that I'm 71 and no longer that keen on dragging a 100kg lathe around the garden, it's pretty well certain that I'm going for either a new Chinese product or a second hand one if I can be dead certain that it's of recent manufacture and reliable.

Martin.

 

[MJP]

I'm pretty well set upon a new Warco WM 180 lathe now.

Is there anyone in South Wales with one of these that they would be happy to let me see and perhaps do a simple demo for me?

Martin.

 

[Brian18741]

Hi Martin, I've enjoyed reading this thread! Did you make a decision yet? I'm in a similar circumstance now having decided I want a metal lathe and milling machine in the same budget and quite liked the look of both offerings from Seig.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

[MJP]

Hello Brian -

More or less decided on a CJ18A from Amadeal, either new or second-hand.

I did at first fancy a Warco WM180 but I've been put off to some extent by the paucity of information, comment and reviews - Just one worthwhile video on You Tube, and little else.

While on the other hand, There's stacks about the CJ18A.

And to my mind, one is probably safer buying something that has been talked about, reviewed, tested, to death rather than what seems to be a rather neglected item.

I could be wrong, of course.

I've dismissed older machines simply because I know nothing about lathes and if I bought a Myford for example, I could well be buying a pup.

I'm sitting back now, waiting to see what fate brings - there are two on the bay at the moment, one quite near me, but the vendor doesn't seem to want to answer questions, which is a bit off- putting. The other is too far away, unfortunately.

If I were to buy a used machine I would want to know its provenance, etc....I don't want to buy a ten/fifteen year old piece of thrown-together Chinese junk!

So it's wait and see. But I expect to be the proud owner of a CJ18A or something of that ilk before long.

- and I've got a nasty feeling that a milling machine could be close behind - the two seem to go together, don't they?

Martin.