What large capacity bandsaw is best for a small workshop?

[Fire_frogs]

My old Dewalt bandsaw is now not up to the job. I need at least 300mm cut vertically and I need it to be super accurate. I'm hoping to be able to cut 3mm and 6mm deep x 300mm high x 600mm long without having to then put it through a planer to get to any form of uniform throughout the cut. I'm hoping to budget around £1500 but also only have a very small space to put it in. Am I asking too much ? People rave about the Laguna bandsaws but I can't find a uk dealer?! The hammer by Felder looks great but the cost is post £2k so out of my budget. Any thoughts guys ??

Thanks for any info or recommendations you may be able to give

 

[mbartlett99]

I was in a similar situation last year and drew an excel sheet but have apparently binned it. Ended up with the Hammer and it is good but way above £1500. As I recall there weren't any new units below 2k. 2nd hand though is a totally different gig - not many people either want or can transport a big lump like that. There's a Scheppach 5-2 for sale in Truro on ebay right now and they're pretty decent - big footprint though. Thought deema here was getting shut of his Felder for around that price recently - give him a shout.

Not sure you'll get away without skimming it in the pt whatever you do.

 

[Sideways]

I was asking a related question here recently without the specific size constraint. I was advised to look at hammer and the scm minimax. I did so last weekend. Based on looking and prodding, not actual use, the s45n minimax is a really strong and simple machine at the £2100-£2200 inc. price point - I liked it better than the hammer models because of those qualities which matter in my application.
A used one might be another option for you.

 

[Ttrees]

Laguna bandsaws come from ACM an Italian brand.
I suggest you look at three phase machines for that money with a £100 thereabouts VFD to run it, if your in a home workshop.
Especially if you only have a 13a socket to plug into, as its 2HP max which a single phase motor on a 13a plug will handle...
and if it does you might be popping fuses all the time.
This is because the starting current of these motors will go far and beyond the rating of the plug fuse.
But you can run a 3HP 3 phase motor on a VFD from a 13a plug all day long no bother atall.
I have a 24" ACM and run it from a really weak supply in a dodgy wired house with no bother, whilst a 1HP single phase pillar drill
will dim the lights!, as will even a wee household vacuum cleaner.

Really easy to hook up a VFD with no electrical knowledge beyond wiring a household plug.
If your looking for a saw similar to the the Laguna's for example, or any newish machine, say from the last 30 years
it will have a three phase dual voltage motor.
To check this, look on the motor nameplate, not elsewhere on the machine.
You will see 220/240v on the nameplate, which means it can run on household power with a VFD
If you see this go grab yourself a bargain, as three phase machines are half the price of single phase machinery.

All you will have to do is open the plastic motor terminals cover and make sure the 6 terminals are orientated to Delta (triangle symbol)
which is low voltage mode, takes about 30 seconds to do.
You will have 4 wires coming from motor to the VFD output with no plug inbetween
These wires will be 3 "hots" and an earth wire.
These 3 hots, go into the output terminals of the VFD, doesn't matter which orientation by the way, it might run backwards, and if so
just switch any of the two hots for correct rotation of band wheels...
Just make sure your blade is off when testing or the blade could walk off the tires.
The most important rule of safety is to wait for the VFD to discharge power before going near power terminals!


So coming from your household wall plug you have your live, neutral and earth
Live and neutral go into input terminals and both the earth from the plug and the earth from the motor get joined together and insert into the earth terminal.
That's it for wiring these up basically to make it run from the VFD panel.

Before that though, you need to buy the VFD first and make a sheet metal dust shroud for the VFD/inverter, tomato/tomato
If you choose an inverter drive with small power terminals you may want to bolt the earths to the metal shroud/box with another short earth stacked ontop to fit into the small earth terminal.
I suggest the Isacon/askpower VFD's as there's auto shutoff technology for the cooling (wee computer) fan, as it can be annoying
with it running all the time.
So a rundown of costs and stuff so far...
Bout 700 quid for a 200kg 20" wheeled machine
Around 100 quid or less for an Isacon VFD
Box for VFD make yourself, this can mount where the original switches went on the bandsaw.

From the electrical shop you will need...
Cable glands if you want to do it nicely, as these will be dustproof and have strain relief ...
one for the motor input, this is a 4 core wire, and a 3 core wire cable gland for the household supply.
Say 4 quid... which go into VFD box.
Crimp connectors to fit the gauge wire, to fit into VFD terminals
say 2 quid for a bundle...
If you have a good pound shop nearby you can buy a cheap crimping tool for £2 or do it with a pliers that has a smooth area/no teeth.
the crimp connectors should squish the wire into a flat shape.

Next you will need a short amount of really thin wire because you want to hook up a switch,
1 core from some thin wire from an old electrical appliance for example.
The Isacon/askpower needs a relay if you want to go all out with the switches and have stops everywhere...
I now have a simple toggle switch on the bandsaw so don't need a relay this way.
Switches cost no more than £3 on the bay each
It is probably frowned upon as I also have 2 mushroom stops with this toggle switch...
If you hit the twist lock mushroom stop, it might be good practice to have an arrow to tell you the toggle switch location
as if you untwist the stop button, and the toggle is still flicked to the on button the machine will start again.
You might want to just use a toggle and forget about the Twist lock off buttons
Or get a start button and the twist lock stop, and buy a relay for a fiver.
(I haven't been on eBay in a long time to get one)

Whatever VFD you buy, most have the slightly annoying fan running all the time
but have a built in £5 relay allready,
Make sure you enter the correct motor parameters or you could burn out your motor easily, running on factory high speed
default values, which would make your motor burn out, trying to turn eight times faster than it should!
In europe we run on 50hz
The manuals on these are sometimes hard to figure out, so I recommend you get one that has documentation from someone on a
forum like from here, as all brands differ in the programming.
Enter the correct values in the right sequence, before hitting the run button!

Here's a recent link to some threads which might be helpful
dust-packed-in-motor-terminals-do-i-need-to-disassemble-t103601.html?hilit=startrite%20275%20motor

startrite-275-table-saw-conversion-3-phase-single-phase-t106896.html?hilit=startrite%20275%20motor

post1239436.html?hilit=isacon%20askpower#p1239436

And Here's a link to Bob's induction motor PDF which you should read
You will get the PDF link from his page as I can't directly link it here
http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... s+pdf#p514

Good luck
Tom

 

[galleywood]

I am sure I read recently that Laguna will be launching power tools in the UK soon.
Give them a call.
https://www.lagunatools.uk/about-us

 

[Nick.]

Laguna bandsaws come from ACM an Italian brand.

Hi Tom, You are right, Laguna use ACM to make some machines for the USA market, but they also have several exclusively designed band saws which are made elsewhere. We are planning to bring these exclusive units into Europe (Not the ACM machines), Including their best selling/award winning 14/12 model.

I am sure I read recently that Laguna will be launching power tools in the UK soon.

Hi Galleywood, yes we are planning to launch selected Laguna machinery into Europe. Band saws are at a fairly advanced stage of progress regarding the necessary CE modifications - I can't give an exact date (or price yet), but would expect UK retailers to have stock at some point in the first quarter of 2019.
Hope this helps,
Best regards,
Nick

 

[mikefab]

Have a look at the Startrite bandsaws (available from Scott and sargeant amongst others). I bought a 503 fairly recently and it's a good solid machine. The 403 comes within your budget but only cuts to 280mm, the 503 cuts to 335mm and is £1739 inc VAT.
A friend with a Hammer has noted that there are very many striking similarities between mine and the Hammer/Felders.... although there are some differences apparent too.
I've been happy with mine for long deep rips and also cutting loads of tenon cheeks on some awkward angled tenons which didn't lend themselves to the other machinery options.
One of the other nice things about these machines is that there is UK stock held by the retailers so it will turn up on a pallet in a day or two instead of a long wait for delivery from Europe.

 

[dzj]

"Am I asking too much ? "

Possibly.
I'd start with finding a blade that will be adequate for the scope and quality of work you plan on doing. The blade will define the amount of tension needed, the size of wheels, power, footprint...

 

[Beau]

Be cautious with the generic Italian machines. I had a Griggio which was very similar to the ACM of the time but a tad heavier. The wheels were ACM. The biggest problem was simply the chassis had too much flex for accurate cutting and many of the machines on the market appear to be very similar under the covers. I nice shiny fence and slick guides do not make up for a fundamental flaw. I would look at the weight of the machines you are considering. It's not a guarantee of a stronger chassis but it's an indicator. I gave up on new machines and restored and old Wadkin. The Griggio weighed 200kg but the Wadkin must be pushing a tonne! When I got rid of the Griggio the big Bassato looked the best built at that end of the market but never used one. There is a Robland on Ebay and they dont normally put there name to rubbish.

Good luck as a quality bandsaw is a joy to use.

 

[wallace]

What about old school like a wadkin BZB or a DR I saw a realtively new wadkin I think it was a C3 at a dealers for £600

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There's a decent looking Wadkin in Bristol on the site we do not mention.

 

[custard]

My old Dewalt bandsaw is now not up to the job. I need at least 300mm cut vertically and I need it to be super accurate. I'm hoping to be able to cut 3mm and 6mm deep x 300mm high x 600mm long without having to then put it through a planer

You're missing a critical point here Fire Frogs. Cuts like these are more about the donor board (ie the piece of wood you start with) than the choice of bandsaw.

With a straight grained, consistently dried, stable timber that was originally processed so that your final pieces will all be quarter sawn; then many bandsaws will get the job done. But with most donor boards it won't matter what bandsaw you have, any 3mm and 6mm thick components you produce will inevitably show at least some cupping and twisting.

In real life woodworking there are a couple of different approaches to dealing with this. If you need these thin components for something like lamination work, then a bit of warping is okay, it'll be dealt with in the pressing process. But you'll still need a finer surface than a bandsaw can deliver, so you'd cut a mill over finished thickness and finish with a drum sander or thickness planer. But if you need something like a sound board for a musical instrument, a drawer side, or a thin divider for a box; then you need a dead flat component. In this case you might use the bandsaw to produce a much thicker component, but you'd plane down to final thickness, taking off small amounts over several days to allow time for the moisture to settle and for internal stresses to be released.

It's just one of those basic facts about woodworking, it's easy to think it's about the tools and the machines but it's really not; it's much more about skill and the careful selection of materials. Reliably producing thin components is a tough challenge for the home woodworker, you may be better off just buying your components in from someone like Timberline,

http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_ ... xmaker.asp

Even then, 300mm wide is really stretching the boundaries of practicality, so veneered ply might be a better route.

 

[mbartlett99]

Just had a look at that Robland - didn't know they imported their bandsaws into the UK (I've got a Robland combi and its built like a brick s**thouse). That looks like a good unit for that price.

Obviously the power is a factor you've got to consider - 3.8kw is a 16A socket - but its got the raw power to make a 300mm cut.

 

[woodbloke66]

My old Dewalt bandsaw is now not up to the job. I need at least 300mm cut vertically and I need it to be super accurate. I'm hoping to be able to cut 3mm and 6mm deep x 300mm high x 600mm long without having to then put it through a planer

You're missing a critical point here Fire Frogs. Cuts like these are more about the donor board (ie the piece of wood you start with) than the choice of bandsaw.

With a straight grained, consistently dried, stable timber that was originally processed so that your final pieces will all be quarter sawn; then many bandsaws will get the job done. But with most donor boards it won't matter what bandsaw you have, any 3mm and 6mm thick components you produce will inevitably show at least some cupping and twisting.

In real life woodworking there are a couple of different approaches to dealing with this. If you need these thin components for something like lamination work, then a bit of warping is okay, it'll be dealt with in the pressing process. But you'll still need a finer surface than a bandsaw can deliver, so you'd cut a mill over finished thickness and finish with a drum sander or thickness planer. But if you need something like a sound board for a musical instrument, a drawer side, or a thin divider for a box; then you need a dead flat component. In this case you might use the bandsaw to produce a much thicker component, but you'd plane down to final thickness, taking off small amounts over several days to allow time for the moisture to settle and for internal stresses to be released.

It's just one of those basic facts about woodworking, it's easy to think it's about the tools and the machines but it's really not; it's much more about skill and the careful selection of materials. Reliably producing thin components is a tough challenge for the home woodworker, you may be better off just buying your components in from someone like Timberline,

http://www.exotichardwoods.co.uk/Woods_ ... xmaker.asp

Even then, 300mm wide is really stretching the boundaries of practicality, so veneered ply might be a better route.

Yep, spot on. My saw will cut to 350mm deep but I need to be uber careful in the set up and use a brand spanking new 3tpi blade. The downside is that for really accurate cutting, you need one planed face each time against the bs fence, notwithstanding that the timber must be dry and stable. This means that ideally you need to refresh the wood's surface each time over the p/t. My Jet 260 has a table width of 250mm so in practical terms for really accurate veneers etc, that's the deepest cut I can make on the bandsaw. Even then, I cut veneers thicker than needed and finish them to a final thickness by passing them through the drum sander. It's a fairly convoluted business is deep cutting on a bandsaw and needs a lot of consideration before work starts and even then it sometimes doesn't go quite according to plan - Rob

 

[Fire_frogs]

Thanks for all your posts guys!
There's lots to consider here. I'm not in a rush to buy a new saw because I want to get it right, I've not thought too much about blade quality or the whole single vs 3 phase thing.

Saying I'm using a fully stable board and excluding the fact that the grain pattern could be causing some distortion how accurate are your band saws on a deep cut and what saws are you all using ? Just to give me an idea? !

Thanks in advance

 

[custard]

Here are some examples of components I've made that approximate to the OP's requirements.

This is a Sitka Spruce soundboard at under 4mm thick. If you look carefully you can see it's sawn dead on the quarter.

Here are some other Spruce soundboards,

These are some Rippled Black Walnut veneers that are typical components for the furniture I make,

And here are some book matched Rippled Sycamore veneers,

Here's a Cedar of Lebanon drawer bottom being finished to 8mm thick,

This is quarter sawn Oak being bandsawn for 9mm drawer sides,

And here are 1.2mm thick leaves that I'm laminating,

Buying a bandsaw is something that always gets the forum worked up. But I'm doing this stuff day in and day out, and IMO the bandsaw doesn't exist that will, by itself, guarantee the results the OP is looking for. That's why I recommend buying in the components or looking at a different approach such as veneered ply or MDF.

A flat and true, 300mm wide x 3mm thick board is a really challenging component to produce, but the choice of bandsaw is one of the least important elements of the process. Far more important is knowing how to source great timber, a patient and methodical approach, lots of practical experience, and other similarly boring items!

 

[mbartlett99]

That really is a bit difficult to answer - too many variables. FWIW I just resawed some 280mm maple on my Hammer N4400 with a stock blade and had to scrub off 1-1.5mm on the pt. Daresay a dedicated blade might improve on that and I don't do this much so I'm hardly a dab hand at it.

That pt work was just to get back to a clean surface not counting any distortion from releasing stresses etc.

 

[Claud1]

You get what you pay for in my opinion as I have been through nearly all the lot of modern bandsaws and having opened SCM bandsaws




In my opinion having owned and got rid of many brands of bandsaw including the Hammer n440 that others would praise I find and still have SCM simple but reliable and accurate once set up

 

[Keith 66]

At School I have a 1970's Startrite in my prep room, In the workshop itself we have a Minimax S45N, though smaller the Startrite is more accurate & better made.
The Minimax is a good enough bandsaw but seems to have quite light wheels & seems rather more flexible than it could be. I couldnt imagine trying to cut full depth on it.
I used to have an old Wadkin DNA 158, now that was a proper band saw, 3 hp, 30" wheels, Apparently Wadkin stopped making that model in 1926, I wish i stlll had it.