WHAT IS GOING WRONG

[Grinding One]

I can relate to all of that apart from eating mud pies and worms

And you guys had a hose?? I had to pump to get a drink....and bikes?? You were spoiled for sure....Walked everywhere or ran when older brother said the boogie man was right behind me....
As far as teachers goes,those nuns were real good with the rod.After i got hit there at school told Mom ,and Dad had another for making the Nun mad in the first place.(Note to self do not make mention of what happen at school)

 

[Digit]

The good old days eh! :lol:

Roy.

 

[Benchwayze]

Never say anything you would not say in front of your Mother
That is the Best way not to offend anyone(At least in my case) My mom was a special Lady (Esp. To Me)
Freedom to say your piece is nice if it does not land you in jail.

Well if saying something is going to land you in jail, then you don't have the 'freedom' to say it. Next to Treason and Incitement, there shouldn't be any such restriction. We should all have the right to like or dislike anyone, for whatever reason we choose. As long as those reasons are based on experience and observation. But even then, there are things we can't say.

The all too common F and C words are still outright illegal in a public place and the Police can arrest anyone they hear using those words. But who cares about that any more? And who, at my age, would say anything to someone using them? Not this oldie for a start!

Maybe the threads are mixed here! I noted there was an omission in that list. 'Only girls and (?) had pierced ears.' (PC required the omission. Let's just say:
'Only girls and pirates had pierced ears.' eh? )

 

[Jenx]

Jenx, with your last comment, you said,

For the drum-bangers here and everywhere, who think we've evolved and progressed... therein lies the undeniable testament to illustrate how very wrong you are.

Who are you calling drum- bangers, leaders (government) or the general public.

General Public / Everyone everywhere... ( 'Politicians' hadn't entered my thoughts to be honest.. ) -- just 'general people' who profess that the world is a better place now than ever, at any point in our history.

Point I was driving at is .. the world is a worse place than it was.
As time passes, I'd have thought ( not an 'unreasonable thought, i believe.. ), that almost every aspect of life would improve, become better, "easier", healthier, more 'civilised' & more respectful towards each other, as a result of a society's evolution going forward... but that hasn't been what has happened.

"Politicians", I gave up on a long time ago. --
I wouldnt believe a word that came out of a politician's mouth, regardless of which camp his or her feet were in.
They'd ( to a man ) tell you anything if they thought it'd protect or save their own sorry hide's.
The last decent one I can think of was a bloke called David Penhaligon, he was a liberal ( not that that matters a jot ), down in the west country somewhere. He was a good bloke, he died prematurely unfortunately, but since him.. I can't think of ONE that I'd trust. So no.. they weren't part of the thinking.
Sorry Malc - I should have made myself more clear. good point

 

[Jake]

Never say anything you would not say in front of your Mother
That is the Best way not to offend anyone(At least in my case) My mom was a special Lady (Esp. To Me)
Freedom to say your piece is nice if it does not land you in jail.

Well if saying something is going to land you in jail, then you don't have the 'freedom' to say it. Next to Treason and Incitement, there shouldn't be any such restriction.

I agree, except that treason should be abolished. There are much better offences around,for those with duties to the government/country. I dislike the fact we have a 'royal' family, and that saying so is theoretically an offence is absurd beyond the wildest dreams of the most ardent PCer.

We should all have the right to like or dislike anyone, for whatever reason we choose. As long as those reasons are based on experience and observation. But even then, there are things we can't say.

Apart from the classic "fire in a theatre" there aren't that many - unless you mean things that you will get criticised for saying by people who think you are wrong to say what you are saying?

That seems to me to the basis of much of the complaints about 'political correctness'.

Maybe the threads are mixed here! I noted there was an omission in that list. 'Only girls and (?) had pierced ears.' (PC required the omission. Let's just say:
'Only girls and pirates had pierced ears.' eh? )

I think you are old.

 

[RogerS]

Apart from the classic "fire in a theatre" there aren't that many - unless you mean things that you will get criticised for saying by people who think you are wrong to say what you are saying?

That seems to me to the basis of much of the complaints about 'political correctness'.

But what gives them the right to criticise? I suppose the same right that I have - to tell 'em to sod off.

 

[Jake]

Apart from the classic "fire in a theatre" there aren't that many - unless you mean things that you will get criticised for saying by people who think you are wrong to say what you are saying?

That seems to me to the basis of much of the complaints about 'political correctness'.

But what gives them the right to criticise? I suppose the same right that I have - to tell 'em to sod off.

Uh huh. But they have the right to say what the hell they like about you too, so suck it up.

 

[maltrout512]

Jenx, thanks for your reply back.

Quote Jenx:

Point I was driving at is .. the world is a worse place than it was.
As time passes, I'd have thought ( not an 'unreasonable thought, i believe.. ), that almost every aspect of life would improve, become better, "easier", healthier, more 'civilised' & more respectful towards each other, as a result of a society's evolution going forward... but that hasn't been what has happened.

"Politicians", I gave up on a long time ago. --
I wouldn't believe a word that came out of a politician's mouth, regardless of which camp his or her feet were in.
They'd ( to a man ) tell you anything if they thought it'd protect or save their own sorry hide's.
The last decent one I can think of was a bloke called David Penhaligon, he was a liberal ( not that that matters a jot ), down in the west country somewhere. He was a good bloke, he died prematurely unfortunately, but since him.. I can't think of ONE that I'd trust. So no.. they weren't part of the thinking.

You and I are of the same age in years. Fact. I have the similar opinion that you have in general life. And, you are quite right that there are drum bangers who as far as they can see incite their right to be the right.

As far as I can see this situation going, it's not going to get any better.

 

[Jenx]

Agree Malcolm, absolutely.

Wish we had the answers, but then .. we'd be very wealthy men, and most probably the same cycle would then start all over again !

Common sense and rationale have seemed to have long since departed, and trust, hope, belief and optomism have got the suitcases packed and the taxi's on its way.

 

[RogerS]

Apart from the classic "fire in a theatre" there aren't that many - unless you mean things that you will get criticised for saying by people who think you are wrong to say what you are saying?

That seems to me to the basis of much of the complaints about 'political correctness'.

But what gives them the right to criticise? I suppose the same right that I have - to tell 'em to sod off.

Uh huh. But they have the right to say what the hell they like about you too, so suck it up.

I don't have any problem with that. All in favour of Free Speech. Apparently Secretary Smith does not.

However I reserve the right to get annoyed with those who think it's their right to rant on because 'it might upset someone else'.... It's none of their damn business.

 

[Benchwayze]

I am old Jake, yes I am.. There is really only one alternative to growing old isn't there? So long as I am happy growing older, I don't give a monkey's muffin! :lol:

As for Treason, it isn't confined to maligning the 'Royal Family'. It's a crime against the State. Most Republics too have such a law. And I believe that here it is still a hanging offence; although that might have been ammended!

 

[Jenx]

'Old' has slightly disrespecful connotations.
'Experienced' and/or 'Wise' are far better and far more accurate.

Many good tunes are played on old fiddles.

Experience cannot be bought ( much like manners and respect and a few other things besides). Its GAINED or EARNED.

Nobody should ever be referred to as 'OLD' in a disparaging sense.
Growing Older is a priviledge. Many are denied that.

Growing Older comes with a duty - that of passing one's wisdom and experience to the young. The young perhaps are not always capable of seeing and accepting that, but the duty is very seldom shirked or avoided.

"OLD" in the sense of applying it to a person, should be done so in a complimentary sense. Its not something that should have any negative associations at all. It's something that all of us should embrace and even aspire to.

'Old' will do for me , every time.
When ( and it happens regularly ) I need advice, guidance or assistance.. I'll look for 'old' Every time.
& I look forward to being OLD myself ... if I am priviledged enough to get there, wherever 'Old' is or starts.

:wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

So Jake,

The next time I am in a theatre and I am the first to smell the smoke, I should leave without saying anything? (Okay, I am being facetious and/or sarcastic, so of course I do get your drift.) But wisdom would tell me to be at the exit, when I shouted!

As for the other points, I will explain:

I do believe anyone has the right to tell me they believe my opinions are not theirs. However, that's different from telling me I shouldn't do or say something, merely because they don't agree with me.

(E.g. 'You realise you are eating a dead animal?') My usual reply is 'Really? Now I know why it isn't putting up a fight.'

Seriously, no one but my Doctor should criticise my diet; no one should insult me by implying that I don't know my steak was once a living creature. At the same time I respect the rights of others not to eat as they see fit. So is it wrong to expect the same consideration from vegetarians?

Experience doesn't necessarily come with age, any more than manners or common-sense accompany a University degree. There are bound to be some post-graduates who feel they are intellectually superior to the herd and by definition, have a natural right to be obnoxious. Much like some pensioners feel they have the right to be ill-mannered.

Heaven forbid I would behave like that!

8)

 

[Jake]

'Old' has slightly disrespecful connotations.
'Experienced' and/or 'Wise' are far better and far more accurate.

Many good tunes are played on old fiddles.

Experience cannot be bought ( much like manners and respect and a few other things besides). Its GAINED or EARNED.

Nobody should ever be referred to as 'OLD' in a disparaging sense:wink:

Oh I think I reserve the right to be rude to old people about their oldness when and if they make comments which i find offensive.

Being old isn't an unqualified good - it is difficult to keep one's mind open and accept that in many ways the world improves and humanity and society gets better, and that means dealing with historic aspects of one's own thinking.

For instance, racism is much more prevalent amongst old people. I have no respect for racists or racist ways of thinking at all. No doubt if we re-wound a few generations, there would be a much greater proportion of old people who moaned and groaned about the passing of slavery, or female emancipation, etc, etc. I would have had no respect for those attitudes either.

It's too simplistic to say that old is good. In some ways, it isn't. As a middle-aged man, I can see that already in myself.

On the other hand, it is more understandable that old people will cling on to the prejudices which were much more common and acceptable in their youth. It is, in a sense, an excuse.

However, in this instance, and reading back - my comment was merely that John must be old if in his day only girls and what he coyly referred to as pirates (by which I assume he means homosexuals?) wore earrings. In my youth, ear-rings were de rigeur and even a bit tame (the odd nose-piercing etc) for any boy with an aspiration to be 'cool'. And I'm thoroughly middle-aged.

 

[Jake]

Oh, and I'm confused - in the land of anti-PC, where everyone calls a spade a spade (no doubt) - is it wrong to use the word old?

Would it be more acceptable to have said "I think you must be a Person Of Even Greater Advanced Age and Immense Accumulated Experience and Knowledge, who grew up at least one or two decades before me"? :wink:

 

[Jake]

'Old' has slightly disrespecful connotations.
'Experienced' and/or 'Wise' are far better and far more accurate.

(this has nothing to do with the ear-rings conversation or John now, just your arguments, Jenx).

This man is old. Experienced, well yes - especially in being a very unpleasant man. Wise?

Wisdom is linked to age, but only to an extent. Ditto experience.

 

[Jenx]

There are 'extremes' in any sphere of conversation though, remember.
:wink:

Nobody with a sane mind would contest that the fella there in your picture is an utterly obnoxious individual.. a despot, basically.
He's not the first, he'll not be the last.
But he is, by definition, an extremist.

Of course its not 'wrong' to use the word 'old' !
.. 'Old' is very often a very positive thing ... an old guitar for example, will 'play' far nicer than a new one of the same exact model..
Equally 'old' can apply to something which has served well, but has come to a time where replacing it would be a sensible option.
Your use of the word, whether you realised / intended it or not, was a bit derogatory, don't you think ?
That 'call' is made by the reader, 100%

How do you conclude that Racism is more prevalent amongst older people ? Is that your opinion, or do you base that on some factual evidence... ? I'm not 'contesting' your statement with any basis of fact, ... because I don't have any - It's a genuine question as to how you would arrive at that conclusion.

Its my 'observation' that there's a kind of 'acceptable reverse-racism culture' in the world.. and I'll quantify that...
Have you ever watched TV and seen ( forgive my terminology here, its perhaps not the best ).. " Dedicated Specific Afro-American Stand-up " ?
-- For example, comics like Chris Rock.
A very funny guy.. there's no doubt about it ... but a lot of the humour is very 'anti-caucasian', and very 'in yer face' in the process of being so. Check the panning shots of the camera, across the audience. It is almost always in every instance I have seen.. 100% coloured.
Not a problem, and I find the guy funny... but - and here's the kicker, reverse that, and have a white comic doing the same gags about coloured people, and the TV station would be shut down within minutes. Double Standards, see.
-- I'll continue with another example, noted when I was in Oshawa, where large automobile manufacturing takes place ...
-- A coloured worker was disciplined for a workplace misdemeanour. Every other coloured worker in the plant walked out in support of their colleage. Admirable enough, one could argue.. until you heard the 'interviews', during which, without exception - each striker had walked out in support of their colleage, based entirely on the fact that he was a black worker.
The relevance of whether his 'crime' was defenceable, or not.. whether he was in the right or in the wrong, had gone utterly out of the window. He was a 'black man wronged' ( in the view of his colleagues ), and they came out the gate in unanimous support.
Again - reverse that same mentality to a white bloke.. and it all of a sudden takes on a much more unpallateable demeanour, dont you agree. ? Double Standards.

If at 'middle age' - you're somewhere approximating the same age as me ( I'm 44 .. born 1965 ) ... we were fortunate enough to have missed the atrocities and horrors of WW2, by a margin just about big enough for it to have 'faded from memory' in relative terms, of the common culture that has prevailed since. -- However, there are still to this day, people who remember it all too well, -- I can cite an example of an older lady, sweet old dear she seemed, in whose house I was working + who had just collected her new spectacles, and brought them home. All was fine until she saw that the spectacles were 'made in Germany'.. at which point all hell broke loose. She told me why.
At first.. I found this to be 'incredible'. ... beyond my understanding.
She explained what had happened to her family members during the conflict. Horriffic. Did I understand then , why she detested the German race so strongly, that she was going to return the Spec's and insist on an alternative. ? Yes. That defines her as a racist. Do I have any discriminatory views - no. But can I understand hers ? yes, of course I can.
But again.. this relates to what we can know to be 'extreme' circumstances. Commonplace at the time, granted.. but War, by definition is extreme. In the widest stretch of my imagination, I couldn't say I felt her reasoning to be 'an excuse'. It may indeed have been very alien to me, but these scars ran very deep with this old lady - to the point where 'forgiveness wasn't, and would never be, even considered. Justifiable ? possibly... bordering on 'probably'.

Nations have done terrible things to each other over the centuries.. that is a fact of life. Thats history, and as we know, you can't change that.
Should you or I be 'publicly apologising for Colonial Slavery', which was 'demanded' by a gentleman on a radio interview a few months back ?
Of course we shouldn't. what an utter 'crock' - the buffoon demanding it had no more knowledge of slavery, than I do.. which is Nil.
A band-wagon jumping *****, that should not have been dignified with air-time. But that sort of lunacy continues to propagate similar nonsense as time rolls on. That will ensure more than anything, that racism is something that won't disappear in any great hurry.

If i may quote you : " Its too simplistic to say old is good ".
-- Just how far out of context of the original comment would you like to take something ? :wink:
-- I'm not an educated fella, by any manner of means. In fact, to look at me, I look like I'd struggle to string a sentence together, ear-rings, tattoos, shaved head yada yada yada.. but 'simplistic' is perhaps not a description that I'd say was one that I'd been linked with all that often.
The use of the description, in context is anything but simplistic. - but that of course, is only my opinion.

Do you find that you have a lot of suppressed anger ?
You do come across as being of that 'leaning'.. keen for a bit of confrontation if the opportunity arises
If so, its maybe very justifyable... I don't know.
A holiday in Scotland in the spring can 'chill a fellow out' .. come smell the heather and have a look at the OLDEST mountains in Europe, up in the Northwest Highlands. Do a bit of fishing, soak up the tranquility... its good for the soul. You would return a 'happy and contented' man, guaranteed.

Take it easy Man..
don't bust a gut.
Life's too short to get overly het-up
All the best,

 

[Jake]

...

That post is tooo long to respond to.

Face it, you misread my comment.

I noticed the reverse racism stuff, and I agree - any kind of racism is deplorable. And all races suffer from that condition - Jewish/Black racism
is quite common in my experience, but so is Black?Jewish (see Farrakhan for instance) as is Asian/Black, Chinese/Black, and a million others no doubt. None of them any better or less stupid and shallow than the others.

Do you find that you have a lot of suppressed anger ?
You do come across as being of that 'leaning'.. keen for a bit of confrontation if the opportunity arises
If so, its maybe very justifyable... I don't know.
A holiday in Scotland in the spring can 'chill a fellow out' .. come smell the heather and have a look at the OLDEST mountains in Europe, up in the Northwest Highlands. Do a bit of fishing, soak up the tranquility... its good for the soul. You would return a 'happy and contented' man, guaranteed.

Take it easy Man..
don't bust a gut.
Life's too short to get overly het-up
All the best,

I think you misunderstand me greatly, but that's OK. Maybe it's because I don't use smileys very much, but at the same time, I don't mind being facetious. And I can argue until the cows come home without getting het up at all ...

 

[Jenx]

Good. I like a good 'discussion' meself !
better over a beer ( well, diet coke for me now )...
and 'oh so easy' to pick up the wrong end of sticks in a media such as this.
..

It was a long post, true.

But it does have some validity in there somewhere :wink:

If we're "middle aged " shouldnt we BOTH be working ?

Take it easy.
& have fun 8)

 

[PowerTool]

I'm middle aged,working,enjoy a discussion over a beer,and am also known to be facetious and argue just for the sake of it.. :wink:

I appear to have traits similar to both of you.

Bugger! :lol:


Andrew