What do you look for in a supplier?

[sawdust maker]

Hi All

I am thinking of opening a woodwork supply business selling to local hobbyists. What do you look for in the suppliers you use? A good range and keen prices are the obvious things, but what else? Timber cutting? Project planning? What are the things you find difficult to source, in terms of materials or information/advice. Finally what gets "up your nose"?
I really would welcome your views.
Thanks
Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Paul

I love buying locally and the reason is I get to touch the tools before buying and can walk right in when there is a problem. I will happily pay an extra £10-20 on a large item for this opportunity.

I would say that the best thing yo can do is let people have enough 'space' to hold and try out the tools.

Local home delivery is nice - my local shop will do this for free on large items (P/T, tablesaw etc.)

Stock quality bits like hinges - one can never get decent hinges and clasps locally

If you are thinking of selling tmber, then taea leaf out of Yandle's book and plane one side so that we know what it looks like. I bought some bubinga form Good Timber the other day and now I have planed it I am pretty unhappy.

 

[PowerTool]

I love buying locally and the reason is I get to touch the tools before buying and can walk right in when there is a problem. I will happily pay an extra £10-20 on a large item for this opportunity.

I agree with Tony here - to me,the convenience is worth a small premium.

Friendly and knowledgable service always makes me more inclined to go back as well.

Andrew

 

[j]

Someone that knows what they are talking about and is willing to help, even if it doesn't directly relate to a sale.

Tool and technique advice.
Maybe even some tool demos (insurance permitting)
Taking that a step further... Tool/technique training.

 

[keithhickson]

Someone who won't treat a newcomer to woodworking with distain. I'll apologise for my errors to any salesperson but I don't like being treated as a total numpty for not knowing the trade jargon and patter, nor the latin name for the wood I'd be buying. Much akin to the old Not The Nine O'Clock News stereo sales sketch (for us oldies out there :wink: ). Add to that good sound working knowledge on behalf of the sales staff, I won't hold it against you for having to look something up, I'd rather wait a couple of minutes than be fobbed off with the wrong information. Add this together with a good stock of varied woods, boards bits and pieces and you'll have a trail of customers waiting for you. Then you can open up your second branch in Hertfordshire :lol:

 

[sawdust maker]

Thanks for your replies so far. J. Suggestion of training is something I was thinking about. What about project planning and timber cutting?

Paul

 

[ByronBlack]

Paul,

My main bugbear with any suppliers is attitude. I work in what is basically a retail environment and we go out of way to make hte customer feel comfortable, I rarely find that with wood/tool companies, the ones that have been good have all showed an interest in what i'm buying and can hold a friendly conversation and actually do as they say.

For example; If I pay for next day delivery, I expect it next day (i've had a number of places let me down on this).

My favourite suppliers are 'Workshop Heaven' and Axminster, both of these companies are happy to give as much detail as I wish, I can also share banter with these people and get a personal service which is very welcomed, and as others have said I don't mind paying extra for that, i've often paid more by going to a favoured supplier because I know they appreciate my business.

In terms of wood, I think a really great feature would be to have priced boards that people can look at it without being pressured. My local supplier of timber although very helpful won't allow me to wander round the yard and pick my own boards, nor can they give me a price in less than the two days it takes them to work from a cutting list, it would be quicker if I could go in select the boards I want and pay for them knowing how much it will come to.

Also, as others have said; let hte customer play with the tools, quite often you WILL get higher sales if a customer can see the difference in quality between a budget tool and a real quality tool, so many places local to me don't even have items in the store so most of my purchases are blind and based purely on the opinions of this forum (which works 9 times out of 10).

Hope that helps.

 

[Anonymous]

Paul

Timber cutting would be good for an absolute beginner, but most people have the facility to size it. Possibly a planing/thicknesing service?

 

[Scrit]

Hi Paul

Tony's comments about a breaking-down and dimensioning service are probably very relevant. Not everyone has the equipment to do this. In terms of timber service you are likely to find yourself up against traditional timber merchants with years of experience in the market, and the contacts to match, so I feel you'll need to be able to put a different slant on the timber side of things.

In terms of wood, I think a really great feature would be to have priced boards that people can look at it without being pressured.

But in what is effectively a wholesale environment that means paying more for the merchant too pull out individual boards, price them and stack them so that they can be bought that way. I've seen outlets where timber is indeed sold this way, Byron, but are you willing to pay for the extra costs (probably another 30 to 40%)?

My local supplier of timber although very helpful won't allow me to wander round the yard and pick my own boards

Neither will mine! That's probably because it's a hazardous work environment in the same way as the workshop of a Ford main dealer is, and you probably aren't covered on their insurance. A lot of yards are like this these days, especially the bigger ones.

.....nor can they give me a price in less than the two days it takes them to work from a cutting list, it would be quicker if I could go in select the boards I want and pay for them knowing how much it will come to.

Doesn't your spreadsheet allow you to calculate the cubage and then add in a wastage factor, then? My local timber yards always seem stretched for staff so you'd be helping yourself if you calculated this rather than asking someone else to do it gratis.

Buying timber isn't like buying soap. It often doesn't come in convenient uniform pieces which can be sold in that way - where it does then the vendor asks a premium - and isn't that something you've objected to in the past? BTW, you might like to know that being in the trades doesn't guarantee faster service in that respect so it pays to help yourself if you can.

As for tools, Paul, handling the tool is one thing, seeing it demonstrated is a much better way of understanding that tool (and how to use it safely). For that reason the bigger outlets tend to have demo days by Trend, deWalt, Scheppach, Sorby, et al. They seem to be effective (maybe someone already in retail like Russell would care to comment here), but from a small retailers' perspective it can be counter-productive to hold a large amount of stock where he cannot hope to sell certain items at the bargain-basement Internet prices we see simply because his overheads are that much higher. Sadly, in this country there seems to be a regretable tendency to go and see the "object of desire" in a shop at £ X, then to actually buy it from a different supplier via the net at 5% off, something which really ticks off retailers. So would our contributors be willing to pay, say, a 5 to 10% premium for service? That should be the minimum, I'd expect, but the other things I expect from a face-to-face dealer are spare parts, service and accessories - all things I do expect to pay extra for and few of which are available over the 'net

Scrit

 

[newt]

Scrit, you are so right about retailers getting the hump when someone spents half an hour testing a tool and then buying from the net. I guess I am old fashioned I could not do this, bloody unreasonable.

 

[Scrit]

I am old fashioned I could not do this, bloody unreasonable.

It's also possibly why these demo days are run. It can be a bit easier to pry wallets open on such a day! :wink:

 

[ByronBlack]

Scrit - you seem to want to disect my post and refute each point with what happens now - I already know this, the OP asked what gets up our noses and wanted to know what would make a great supplier, and I gave him that from a hobbyist point of view of how I see things now. I know buying wood aint like buying soap, but does it have to remain the way it is now? Of course it doesn't, it just requires guy's like the OP to change how it's done - afterall, he did say he was aiming at the hobbyist and not trade!

If he made it easier to buy wood for the hobbyist and made tool's more accessible for people to try then in my humble and amateur hobby based opinion would do well - you only have to see how many threads appear on the forum with frustration in buying wood.

 

[keithhickson]

Scrit, you are so right about retailers getting the hump when someone spents half an hour testing a tool and then buying from the net. I guess I am old fashioned I could not do this, bloody unreasonable.

I must agree with you both, I am willing to pay a modest premium for a good service, if it is a large & complicated (read potentially hazardous to my digits/extremities) machine as it will be when I get round to buying table saws etc, and the sales staff are willing to put themselves out to show me how the thing works. I wouldn't obviously expect that for smaller power tools as MOST of them are fairly obvious ( ). As I've stated before I'm a "born again" wannabe woodworker and my needs, at present, are modest so a retailer who will give me the service I need can be assured of my hard earned pennies :lol:

 

[Gill]

I don't know how big the market would be, but most scrollers have difficulty getting thin sheets of quality Baltic Birch ply. A mail order service for that might be popular too.

Gill

 

[DomValente]

Scrit mentioned demo days , this is something Isaac Lord does.
As to the wood side of things if anyone could specialise for the hobbyist it would be wonderful, there are hundreds/thousands of potential clients, makes me wonder why nobody has done this.

Dom

 

[ByronBlack]

Dom - some have, but they are mostly on ebay, there is still an advantage that you can see the board and rate the user on feedback. I've actually just bought a lot of wood from ebay for up and coming projects, and some of it is just great, because you can see the board its a little easier to weigh up wastage amounts, something I find I can't when getting from a yard, sometimes I think being a hobbyist means I get the worst boards.

 

[keithhickson]

For what it's worth I would be willing to travel a fair distance to see what it was I would be buying, yes it's an offset of postage aginst fuel but if the advice is included then I for one think it would be worth it

 

[Corset]

Interesting conversation this one. I have found pleading ignorance in trade shops is never treated with distain they are always keen to help.
In shops if you don't go in when they are busy they are often quite bored and so are keen to help. I will always buy from the shop if they have helped even if i think it is a bit pricey because when they close i can't go anymore.
Take my local wood yard Fitchett and woolacott, I know they laugh at me when i get the measurements all confused. But i have been in enough times to accept it. I always get the older staff and explain that i am building a certain piece of furniture (or as close as i can get) and they wander off and get me the best they can. Several times one of the staff has stopped me buying a piece of wood because i have missed a check or something.
Wished more places had hand tools etc to play with but with the thieving toe rags out here its unlikely. I have to have a buzzed entrance at work due to people trying to rum off with things.
Owen

 

[JFC]

If i wasn't able to pick my timber i would walk out . I buy all my timber PAR so for joinery i need to make sure the finished timber i buy is spot on . Sometimes i have whole racks out looking for the right pieces The two main yards i use just leave me to it and i call someone when i'm ready to pay .
Speaking of paying , Credit is always a good way to bring in customers :lol:

 

[sawdust maker]

Thank you all for your very useful and considered replies. You have given me a lot to think about. To sum up. It appears you want you want a good range of tools you can get your hands on. I note a lot of you say you would pay a premium for this, call me a cynical but money is hard come by, and I know a lot of people do try in the shop and buy on the net, so keen pricing is a must. You also want information given in a way that makes you feel valued and ensures you get the product that serves your needs. Comments about cutting appear to be split. I know some of us have the machinery to turn a 5'x 2' x 2" board of hardwood into a coffee table with ease. But I know from experience that this can be a daunting task for the newby who has only worked in pine and been able to buy timber in rough sizes for each component. This brings me to project planning. No one made any comments about this. I have, in the past, struggled with pencil and paper for hours trying to discover the best way to make a pice of furniture. And finally, range. A wide range of good quality cabinet fittings not the stuff sold by B&Q and Screwfix (sorry Kingfisher no offence intended.)
Thanks again
Paul