What commisiion?

[Bodrighy]

I have been around some of the galleries down here in Cornwall and have a few that are interested in having my 'rustic' pieces. \/

They all sell on a commission basis. What sort of commission is normal? The galleries vary from one that already has stuff by Yvonne Arlett through to one that has nothing and would be an outlet for cheaper, quickly made stuff so it might vary. Any advice from the Pros / experts welcome.

Pete

 

[Jenx]

Hi Pete .. what great news that you have potential outlets ! Brilliant !

I'm a long way from being a professional turner - but business is business at the end of the day, regardless of the commodity in question.

I guess you have to decide whether you want to actually generate a 'profit' or if you just want to recoup some costs involved in producing your work. -

If you want a 'profit' - then you first need to get to the true 'cost of sale', - what does it cost you to put something up for sale.
Several things there then need to be taken into consideration...
Raw Material Costs.
Manufacturing Costs ( your electricity, tooling, finishes, )
Transportation Costs ( both inwards and outwards )
etc.

Then decide on what you would consider as an acceptable %margin of profitability for yourself.

Then you have to add to the 'costs' side - the % comission that the outlet could potentially receive, and ***** ( with them probably ) what would be considered as a viable level of commission.

So lets say for example..

A pice of 'Raw' timber costs you £ 10
It costs you £ 5 all-told, to manufacture the finished piece,
It cost you £ 2 to go get it in the raw, and deliver it to the outlet
so far, the piece has cost £17.

Lets say then, that you decide on an acceptable margin of profit for yourself is set at 30% for you, and a 10% comission for the seller.

You then sell the piece for £17 divided by 0.6 to the final buyer, at £28.33, and everyone's happy.

Of course, there's some other things to factor in, such as the VAT, and if you intend to be 'legal' and declare the earnings to the HM Treasury ( :wink: ). - The VAT is a little minefield of its own, but not impossible... and of course if you intended to go this route, you then perhaps have to 'factor in' to the 'cost of sale', the costs of having an accountants services etc etc..

However, if you were only wanting to generate a bit of 'recouping a bit of pin-money to offset against the cost of a hobby',
then its perhaps a bit easier to decide on an acceptable rate for your selling agent, and infinitely easier to administer... as effectively he can set the selling price, based on the comission he wishes to achieve in £note terms.

It may be worth being mindful, that if you go down the 'pin-money' route, that your seller is most likely a 'legitimate trading outlet' with the proper 'books', P&L and Balance Sheets involved in running any business, and as such will be in the position that he will be declaring income generated from goods supplied potentially by yourself, and in doing so, can 'unwittingly implicate you' to 'official' bodies, such as the VAT Man, The Tax Man, etc etc... who are never shy in coming looking for their 'share' - thus almost forcing your hand into keeping books anyway.

Hope that maybe gives you a bit of food for thought....
As mentioned, as you know, I'm never going to be a pro turner, but the principals involved in trading with any outlets / customers are basically the same.

Best of luck with it all... sounds like a great opportunity !
8)

 

[robo hippy]

General rule of thumb for retail sales is if you buy it for 10, you sell it for 20. Some of the low end galleries will take %40 , most are in the %50 range, and some fancy ones will take as much as %60. Do check to see how reputable the gallery is, and some times a contract is needed to make sure about who is responsible for damage and breakage, and what happens if the place goes broke and closes.

Personally, I almost never sell to galleries. They want it on consignment, and only pay when they sell it. I have enough trouble keeping stuff in stock as is, and if they want my work, then they have to buy it outright, or 30 days net.

robo hippy

 

[TEP]

Hi Pete.

It is always best to sell your pieces wholesale, but if you must go the commission route up here you can be charged from 120% down to 25%. The higher ones, you put your price on, and they put on as much as they think the piece will stand. The odd one will go as much as 200%, but if you get what you want fine.

BUT as has already been mentioned, you often have to stand any breakages or theft. If it is on commission some don't give a toss about the stuff, it's not theirs is it. Some treat you as if they are doing you a favour, so you just have to take what ever their rules are.

Often though commission is the only way to go, unless you can find a stall at some regular fairs, and not everybody wants to stand at a stall all day.

Good luck with your marketing!

 

[mrs. sliver]

Great news on the gallery interest!! \/ !!! But I am NOT suprised!

I hadn't realised they took so much ! :shock:

I think I would let them have a few to get your work seen in the art buying circles, but not too many, not at 50%! :evil:

Good luck with it!!

 

[Bodrighy]

Thanks guys.

One of the galleries is reputable and has been around for at leats s25 years to my knowledge. It is also in a village that has a lot of millionaires with holiday homes + Prince Charles stays there frequently. One of my daughters lives and works there and is well known so that one is pretty good. He is really interested in the rustic things and says that they have sold well in the past. His prices are pretty steep, nothing much under £100 so if I am lucky that would cover a fair few bits of sandpaper if I sold one piece. :lol:

Part of my thiking of doing galleries is that there are so many in Cornwall and as long as I am sensible in the sort of thing that I put in them I might sell soem things. It is also a way of perhaps advertising as most of the stuff that I make is not seen down here. It is mainly bowls with a few platters.

I let you all know what happens....maybe nothing but he who doesn't try will never succed

Pete

 

[mrs. sliver]

Go for it Bodders!! :lol:

 

[user 5053]

In simple simple terms a gallery will on average double the price you will get for the piece. If you can, insist on them buying your work off you, that is a better option, otherwise it may just sit under a shelf gathering dust. There are lots of galleries out there which are run on a sort of hobby basis and aren't really that professionally run and there is a high turnover of gallery closures so you have to be very careful. Very good luck and hope you find a suitable outlet for your work.

 

[Scrums]

The average for a Gallery commission is 40% as far as I'm aware, though I have heard hearsay of higher %'s.

Probably worth bearing in mind that the gallery will also charge the dreaded VAT.......

So, if you wanted £30 for something as in £ notes from a private sale, then to get the same amount from a sale in a gallery @ 40%, they'll have to sell the item at £58.75 to give the chancellor his wedge and get theirs. Virtually double the price you'd charge for it.

For this reason I don't do galleries or wholesale production work - it's just not worth it.

Chris.

 

[Mark Hancock]

From my experience the majority of galleries nowadays are charging around 50%.

When negotiating with galleries make sure both parties are referring to the percentages the same way ie a 100% markup gives a 50% commission. And then the gallery if VAT registered will have to charge VAT on that commission. Quite often a gallery will quote a commission rate but will omit to mention the VAT element. So if a maker wants £50 for a piece the selling price will end up being £108.75 (50 + 50 + VAT on 50). With this sort of pricing arrangement you have to decide if you are happy for the gallery to set the selling price. A gallery with a 40% rate would charge a lower price for the same piece. This can become an issue with customers if they come across your work in different galleries at varying prices. You can overcome this problem by setting the selling price yourself but then you have to resort to a bit of maths to work out the various elements of maker's cost, commission and VAT. Remember Gallery owners don't tend to be accountants and I've come across a number of galleries where the makers have been short changed because the commission calculation has been done wrong.

The one point in favour of selling through galleries which hasn't been mentioned is the fact that your work is on sale for 6 sometimes 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. If you compare that with the cost of the number of fairs/events you would have to do to get the same exposure for your work galleries can offer quite a good deal.

 

[Bodrighy]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I envisage having a few pieces in different galleries and am thinking of it as Mark says, a shop window for my work. To be honest I have seen very little in galleries apart from bowls and so it will be interesting to see if anything sells. Looking into craft sales etc I haven't got the patience or stamina to traipse all over the place trying to sell stuff this way and if I can cover my costs I will be more than happy.

Pete

 

[boysie39]

Hiya Bodrighy, When tou see the % that these people want to show your stuff and probley know know nothing at all about the timber or the making of a piece it makes you think. If you were to put an adv. in some of the shops around and let people come to your work area and see something been made with your selling pieces on view would it work out better. Or are there obstecles to block that way as well.
I dont think this problem will ever bother me ,but I see a turner who has a stall at a Sunday market for the past 3 yrs. I've asked him if he sells much and he always replies an odd piece ""odd "" meaning sometimes. But he said people will ring him and ask for a piece for a wedding present or Birthday,or Christning or whatever, so that is why he still retains the stall. I wish you luck Pete in whatever you do but keep at it. REgards Boysie