Wet Wheel Sharpening Systems.

[Sharpos]

Hi everybody, I am looking to get a wet wheel shapening system and am seeking advice from current owners and users.

I am looking at the Tormek T4 system and the Scheppach Tiger 3000VS or the Tiger 2500.

I am looking for the jigs to go with these for wood turning tools, hand tools, knives along with planner blades etc.

There is quite a large difference in price - can anybody tell me if the extra cost for the Tormek system gives anything above what the Scheppach system provides?

I am also open to recommendations for other systems that have the same sort of features and accessories.

 

[Jelly]

I have never fully understood the benefit or appeal of wet wheel sharpening systems.

In my experience a linisher (or just a belt sander reserved for metal with not excessively coarse grit belts fitted) is faster, produces just as good a finish, Much less messy and more adaptable to other uses, whilst still being cooler cutting than a traditional offhand grinder.

The Sorby Pro-Edge is a dedicated sharpening setup based on a belt linisher, which has a strong following in this parish.

It's definitely worth considering the merits of that kind of system by comparison to the likes of a Tormek.

 

[RobTy]

If you get the axminster ultimate edge (another linisher) its also compatible with Tormek jigs.

 

[Jacob]

I read about Tormek etc but there always seem to be the same complaints - basically very slow and very wet.
I have used a large diameter hand cranked wet wheel in the past which worked perfectly.
I wonder if is a diameter thing - getting a small wheel up to a fast cutting speed will throw off the water?
Just a thought.
I'm currently keen on a 12" sanding disc attachment to my lathe, which grinds and shapes plane/chisel blades fast, cool and precise compared to a linisher.
In fact I sold my Pro edge, the disc is better by far.

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

I have had the Tormek T7 for about six years now and I think it is a wonderful tool for sharpening. I went from a dry grinding wheel and DMT stones to the Tormek and it was a nirvana moment. It is not slow at all except if you want to change the angle on a large chisel. Because it comes with a very good accurate angle setting tool when you come to regrind you are taking very little metal off. Typically regrinding a 1" chisel takes no more than one minute and with a quick go on the linishing wheel you have a razor sharp edge ready for just about anything. The turning tool jigs are excellent and mean you get accurate repeatable grinds every time. My kitchen knives have never been so sharp. One important feature the Tormek has which its competitors do not is a stainless steel shaft. The accessories are not cheap but they are far superior in build and function to any of the copies out there ( I know because I thought I would save a few quid and got the cheaper ones, they now sit in a drawer unused) Just the other day I was in the workshop early, the temperature was -1 and I needed to regrind two block plane blades, by the time I had finished my hands were so cold I had to run them under a hot tap! So there is a drawback there.
I have never used a Sorby type linisher but I have a second best set of chisels which are essentially used as scrapers and I sharpen these on my 10" disc sander with an 80g disc on it, they sharpen in seconds which is great but I would not even think about putting my best ones anywhere near it.

 

[G S Haydon]

We have a Tormek at work and have for years. What I like is there is no metal dust or dust from the week as it breaks down. It's all trapped in the water. I'd rather have it there than in the air and then in my lungs. This might seem over the top, but as the years go by we learn more about risk.

Also there are no sparks. Risk is likely low, but for insurance purposes we keep dry grinding to an absolute minimum.

 

[Jacob]

We have a Tormek at work and have for years. What I like is there is no metal dust or dust from the week as it breaks down. It's all trapped in the water. I'd rather have it there than in the air and then in my lungs. This might seem over the top, but as the years go by we learn more about risk.

Also there are no sparks. Risk is likely low, but for insurance purposes we keep dry grinding to an absolute minimum.

Dry grinding risk fairly high I reckon and the nearest I've come to a workshop fire twice.
Grinding on a belt sander and I noticed a little plume of smoke coming from it well after I'd stopped. Smouldering saw dust and melted plastic under the belt and out of sight.
Grinding on a linisher and a little bundle of wire wool which shouldn't have been there, in direct line with the sparks, burst into flames.
I now don't use the belt sander at all for grinding. A pity really - it was very good! Linisher lower risk because of the open structure and fewer places for dust to pile up unseen
I now clean up well around linisher, wheel or disc before grinding, and stay alert.
A 15 minute tidy up at the end of a session is good - reduces fire risk in itself and gives time for any smouldering to show up.

 

[Sgian Dubh]

About four decades ago one joiner at the place I worked regularly used the big belt sander to regrind his plane irons and chisels in preference to using the readily available 12" or 14" diameter ~3" wide grindstone on the other side of the workshop which was the 'official' regrinding station. Then, one day, just as we were all coming back from a break, either lunch or it may have been just a tea break, I can't recall, we immediately noticed the workshop seemed to be filling up with smoke. A quick look around didn't reveal an obvious source, except that there seemed to be a bit of smoke coming out of one of the extractor vents. Then we checked the extractor outside. Yes, the bins of sawdust and chips were starting to flame up very nicely. Cue mad running around with fire extinguishers, alarms going off inside the factory as smoke hit the smoke detectors, mass evacuation of perhaps sixty or seventy staff, and blue lights and sirens working overtime as a fire engine rolled at high speed through the factory gates. When all fire was doused and the damage assessed it was found there was a need to spend quite a bit of money on the chip collector shed and its bins.

That particular joiner was not made employee of the year as I recall, and may even have been gently remonstrated by management for possibly having a small role in causing the fire in the first place, ha, ha. Slainte.

 

[toolsntat]

I've just been gifted my first usable wet/dry grinder combo. Coming on for 20 years old it's an Axminster APTCDPWS.
It runs beautifully and has a nice build quality about it.

Talking of sparks and fires, we had a bit of a mishap when installing Magic City kids themed play zone in Clacton.
Everything was made as a welded steel frame and overclad, then taken apart and erected on site for finishing off. On one side of the room was a rope-bridge mounted to a steel plate. Typically the plate was in the wrong position and needed cutting out.
On the other side of the room under construction was Fingals cave, an elaborate mishmash of bent, welded rods and chicken wire being actively fibreglassed to give a rock effect.
It was a considerable distance between the two and I'll never forget seeing the one spark make impact as I ran to alert the bloke with the grinder of a potential problem.
It didn't do a massive amount of damage, just the wet resin went up and we had it out by the time the fire engine turned up.
It was up on a mezzanine floor and filled the place with smoke . It needed clearing and the best I could do was go up on the roof with the (yet to be installed) Bouncy castle blower and put over an opening where a vent was to go.
Thankfully the smell had gone by the time it opened.
Never a dull moment on those jobs....
Like the ex RAF office chappie looking to organise a Chinook helicopter to lift a pirate ship into Rainbows End in Bognor Regis.....
Cheers Andy

 

[TRITON]

Is there not a problem with the tormek ones-axminster/jet etc if you leave the wheel in the water after use. I believe it can deform it. Maybe causes it to break up.
I remember some warning from college about always making sure we took the water trough off after use.

I've a sharpenset, but i dont really use it as it sprays water everywhere. Im only keeping it around because i got it for a song, and it came with the planer blade attachment for up to 12" blades.

Years ago in a workshop they had a huge Viceroy whet grinder, it looked a bit like a record player. That looked like the ideal thing, and its a bit like the Axminster AC125WDG, which I quite like the look of. Only the grinding wheel was about 18" in diameter. They have those on ebay and the like, but they're really expensive and usually 3 phase

 

[Hornbeam]

I think it depends upon which Tormek wheel you have. The faster cutting water stone ones are OK but I think the natural stone can cause problems

 

[Sean Hellman]

Tormek with diamond wheels are the best. Tormek is expensive but is undoubtedly the best. I have played around with various wet grinders and the Tormek does always come out on top for build quality, jigs that work properly and well thought out design which is being improved on every few years. After using diamond wheels the thought of ever using stone wheels again is just depressing.
I am using a coarse diamond wheel on a Triton wet grinder at the moment, I would much prefer to use the diamond on a Tormek, but have not been able to justify the outlay yet. I also use 50x2000mm belt grinders with speed control, which is what most of my stuff is sharpened on, followed but a bench grinder with a couple of mops for polishing.

 

[eribaMotters]

I bought a tatty Tormek about 30 years ago for £25, what a bargain. I took it apart, de-rusted and re-painted it, turned up a stainless steel arbor to replace the rusty steel original and re-wired it. It still performs well, if slowly. I add a spot of bleach to the water trough each time I use it and have re-painted it again once.
The only sharpener I have preferred was the old 18" Viceroy Sharpenedge horizontal beast we used when I taught. This was oil lubricated and was still going strong at 60+ years old when my boss got rid of it.

Colin

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

pipper

I add a spot of bleach to the water trough each time I use it.

Colin

What flavour of bleach do you add and why?

 

[eribaMotters]

What flavour of bleach do you add and why?

Any bleach will do, a couple of drips and no more as the water foams up. The stone is slow to dry out and you can get mould forming on it.

Colin

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

Ah. I must say I have never had that problem. Is there a chance the bleach could harm the stone in some way?

 

[eribaMotters]

Ah. I must say I have never had that problem. Is there a chance the bleach could harm the stone in some way?

I'm guessing you must use yours more frequently than me and probably keep it in a warmer environment. I cannot see any reason why the bleach would harm the stone..

Colin

 

[mrpercysnodgrass]

I do use my stone often, restoring antique furniture means I am always hitting hidden pins and screws. I remove the water trough after every use and I keep my workshop warm. I know bleach is not good for marble because it is porous and thought because these wet stone are also porous it might harm them too. It would be interesting to find out for sure.