Waste plumbing for dust extraction

[DiscoStu]

I'm am planning on, or thinking of using waste pipe and connectors for dust extraction.

Anyone tried this?

Any feedback? The reason I am thinking of this is because I've seen the 100mm systems and they are waaaay too big.

So I think 40mm will be fine. I'm only going to use one tool at a time but want to have them all connected and then use some form of blast gate to determine where the suction goes.

Not sure where I get a 40mm blast gate from!

 

[Doug B]

I used to have a gated system made from rainwater gutter down piping it's around 60mm, I made the blast gates from 6mm Perspex using solvent weld glue to attach a coupler to both sides of the gate, being Perspex I could see when dust collected around the inside of the gates.
It worked really well up until I upgraded all my extraction a few years ago.

 

[RobinBHM]

I believe vacuum type extractors are suitable for small dia extraction pipe. The chip extractors that have a sock on top need large diameter ducting and a balanced system.

 

[petermillard]

Yes, I have a length of 40mm grey waste running the length of the workshop and around one corner; don't use it much now as I have a long hose on a boom arm that reaches most of the workshop, but it still gets used for longer sessions on the chop saw and works well. I didn't bother with blast gates - I just used 'stop ends' to blank off each inlet as needed, but you could probably make your own blast gates without too much difficulty. Would non-return valves work? Never used one, but I get the impression that you can change the direction of the flow manually?? Might be worth investigating anyway.

But yes, 40mm waste works fine when connected to a vac for finer dust extraction e.g. hand-held power tools. If your vac has a power take-off for auto-start, you can run what's effectively a long extension cable from this around the workshop - I have double trailing sockets hanging down above the benches on each side, so than anything plugged into these triggers the vac. Works well.

HTH Pete

 

[fluffflinger]

What sort of machines are we talking about and what type of extractor are you intending to use? Anything more that dust in a 40mm pipe will be a challenge.

A good compromise would be 68mm drain pipe which is relatively cheap and will give good air flow. If you are using an shop vac then you can usually open up the inlet to a larger size and help air flow through the pipe work only reducing it where necessary.

If you are talking about planer thicknessers then you are on the edge of having to commit to a 100mm system for good chip extraction.

Whilst building up my workshop I used a Wickes Shop Vac, small cyclone and a length of 63mm flexible hose for everything, just got very bored when I had to keep emptying the bin under the cyclone.

Give a bit more detail and I'll gladly help.

 

[DiscoStu]

Ok this is what I currently have:

1, Axminster TS200 table saw
2, Axminster 250 bandsaw
3, Cheap Clarke bench mounted belt / disc sander
4, CSMS
5, Bosch random orbital sander
6, festool Domino 500

I've got a Karcher Wet and Dry Vac and I am intending to get a dust deputy cyclone for it.

I am keen on keeping the cost down but I also don't want to be swapping loads of stuff around etc.

 

[Green]

It's a good idea but a pain the arse if it blocks somewhere and you have to start taking it apart all the time or have to re-plumb when you move the shop about. I took all mine down and just have a really long hose that I plug in as needed. I have appropriate adapters gaff taped to each machine.

 

[Stimpi]

I thought about this about four years ago and decided against it the cost of clear plastic tube is the same price as plumbing plastic and has the advantage of being transparent which you need to be to observe blockages. Also if you attend woodworking shows you can get special rates which make it worthwhile. My system is a CamVac who provide a good delivery service. Had one problem once with a part that came damaged by their delivery provider. Told them by phone when received, replaced next day. Axminster also sell identical gear but cant vouch for their service.

Apart from limiting bends which does affect the pulling power its at the tool end I become frustrated there all different! I am surprised this has not been a thread on this forum.
My gate with hose attached.

Another hose attached to shop vac

A plumbing reducer fitting does work but I aught to get shares in Duck tape
A commercial reducer fitting. Not very good keeps working loose. There is a commercial reducer available but I find it’s not that versatile.

All the fittings/outlets are different The fitting to the RAS is oval and not used, I depend on the ventura shown.

Biscuit Jointer different

Orbital sander Different

I could go on.

Regards
Mike B

 

[DiscoStu]

Maybe a big single hose is the way forward. It is a pain all the different size connectors.

 

[Stimpi]

I do like my system I have about four gates at strategic points its good for sweeping up shavings etc. I built a separate shed for the CamVac like a sentry box where it collects the saw dust and the like. I think it keeps down condensation because it keeps the air moving. Just have to keep bends to a minimum.

 

[fluffflinger]

Connectors are really simple to standardise so you just need one adaptor.

Take a length of waste pipe 32mm or 40mm whatever you want to be you standard size the images below are 68mm down pipe. Cut a few short lengths on the chop saw say 35mm in length, then take a section and cut down the ring vertically (very simple if you have a bandsaw but a handsaw will do fine). Curl this section up and slip inside a complete section mark with a pencil and cut it down so it fits inside the complete section. Continue to do so until you reach the required diameter to slip over your tools extract port. Do this to all your tools and then you only require one adaptor for them all. I use super glue to attach these to the tools. You can easily sand the inside of the last ring to create a perfect fit and sand again to create a taper so your hose will push fit.

You can use this method with everything up to 110mm soil pipe although that requires a heat gun.

I think for your application a good shop vac and a Dust Deputy (or small self built cyclone) should be adequate. You just need to lose all the differing sized tool outlets.

I will take a picture of mine tomorrow if you like? It's been adapted to a 63mm connection from vac to cyclone and then a long section of 63mm pipe, vac and drop bin sit on a little dolly with castors. Although I have a twin engined Record DX4000 and a bigger cyclone I used this set up for ages to cope with everything and still use it for shop clean up, sanding and hand held router. Don't underestimate the value of using larger diameter pipe as close to the tool as possible, it really helps the air flow. I bet if you look at your shop vac where the hose exits it goes imediately down to 32mm or thereabouts (where the exit hole will be appreciably bigger), take the friction losses et al along the way and it will not produce the same suction at the tool as a 63mm pipe constricted as close to the tool as possible. With no adaptation I simply cable tied 63mm hose direct to my Wickes Sho Vac.

Cyclone for shop vac, IMO, is almost essential if you don't want to keep unblocking the filters and burning out motors.

 

[Doug B]

Maybe a big single hose is the way forward. It is a pain all the different size connectors.

To be honest that's the conclusion I came to, hence I started my first post with "I used to", I now have 2 vacuum extractors one at either end of the workshop, one connected to a dust deputy the other to a Thein separator.
The hoses are attached to the ceiling with bungee cords & together cover the entire shop, I just move the end of the hose to the tool I want to work with, it takes no longer than opening & shutting gates & I get no loss of suction due to leaks around gates or bends etc.
Admittedly my shop isn't big 28'x 9' but there's no way I'd go back to a gated system if only to avoid the times I switched on the extractor but forgot to open the appropriate gate & filled the shop with a plume of dust (hammer)

 

[Stimpi]

I switched on the extractor but forgot to open the appropriate gate

You know I do this but, first rainy day will have a go at making those reducers, good idea Richard.

 

[DiscoStu]

Well my Dust mite and 30l container arrived from Stu_2 today, so now starting to think about this in earnest. My current thinking is:

Make the stepped adapters as per fluffflinger's post above and use these for all of the bench tools but also use one big hose that I move between tools.

Not too sure what to do about the Domino and random orbital sander though. Might have to have another hose and adapter for those that plugs into them and into the "main" hose.

The fittings on the dust mite are 50mm so thinking of using this as my default size. What do people think about that?

 

[fluffflinger]

Buy a length of 63mm flexible hose (I brought 4m from ebay seller). Use a short length to connect the shop vac to the cyclone. Use the rest as a main hose to connect your cyclone to your machines.

Then make a reducer to fit back to your original vac hose. Adapt your smaller tools using my reducers to push fit onto your vacuum hose.

You then have a set up that will be simple to adapt to all machines, static or hand held. The smaller diameter vacuum hose is easier to handle when using a sander etc.

See if you can adapt your shop vac to accept a Henry Hoover HEPA Filter bag. This will stop the fines from sanding getting into the vacuum (the cyclone won't get all these trust me) and the air in your shop will be the healthier for this step.

Put the vac and cyclone on a little dolly and you will be happy as Larry IMHO.

I also brought a set of 2in tools ( crevice tool, floor nozzle etc Amazon) for general shop clean up.

Reason for going to 63mm is that all the extract gurus will tell you that the best performance comes from reducing the gauge of the hose or pipe close to the tool. I don't profess to understand the pysic's but in my experience it made a massive difference.

I also cut back the inlet and outlet on my dust deputy to increase the size of the inlet and outlet (not sure if yours is the same but mine were tapered). It increased the diameter by 5mm from 50mm to 55mm. No much improvement you might think but it increases the surface area by 20% and that's a big improvement in air flow and cyclone performance. You certainly don't want to go from vac to cyclone with a lesser diameter pipe that the cyclone inlet if you want of maximise it's performance.

If you are interested I will take a photo of my setup and you can be the judge. It got me out of jail whilst I was rigging my ducted extract.

Finally go buy yourself some Pink Grip from Screwfix or the like it is the bestest stickiest goopiest stuff going and great for sealing bonding pipes fittings etc.

 

[DiscoStu]

Thanks Richard. That all sounds very sensible. If you can post some photos then that would be great.

I think I might need to find some good rubber couplers to connect the vac hose to the Domino and Orbital sander. Any advice on where I could get these or if there is some other part that works well etc. I know someone mentioned cv boots for other connectors.

 

[Glynne]

I'm watching this post with great interest and seeing some pics will be great.
Richard's idea for connectors is absolutely brilliant and will save a fortune in duct tape and time in fixing leaks.
Hopefully not hijacking the thread but there has been mention of both cyclones and Thein separators and I wondered if someone could just explain the difference if in fact there is one?
Thanks.

 

[DiscoStu]

Not hijacking the thread at all. Ask away. I'm used to a Land Rover forum where you'd post a question about air suspension and by the third post we would be discussion Scottish independence and by post 5 we would taking the mic out of one of the club members for wiring up his winch the wrong way.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I'd expect anyone to wish to get off the subject of Landrovers pretty quickly.

 

[Selwyn]

Maybe a big single hose is the way forward. It is a pain all the different size connectors.

To be honest that's the conclusion I came to, hence I started my first post with "I used to", I now have 2 vacuum extractors one at either end of the workshop, one connected to a dust deputy the other to a Thein separator.
The hoses are attached to the ceiling with bungee cords & together cover the entire shop, I just move the end of the hose to the tool I want to work with, it takes no longer than opening & shutting gates & I get no loss of suction due to leaks around gates or bends etc.
Admittedly my shop isn't big 28'x 9' but there's no way I'd go back to a gated system if only to avoid the times I switched on the extractor but forgot to open the appropriate gate & filled the shop with a plume of dust (hammer)

I think I'd like to do this. What size hose did you use? Does it never get in the way?