Ward paring chisel

[Bedrock]

I had mentioned this in another thread, but at Jimi's suggestion, I am posting separately.
It is 1 1/2" wide and 10" long in the blade. The side profile is very fine and when I bought it some years ago, the principle bevel appeared to be the original. It does not get much use, and I am somewhat reluctant to regrind until I absolutely have to.
Anyone any ideas on age? It has not lead a hard life so it is a bit difficult to get any sense of age, apart from the makers stamps.

Regards
Mike

 

[jimi43]

They started in1803 but I would say.. mid to late Victorian mate

GORGEOUS chisel!!

Jimi

 

[Trafalgar]

A real 'beaut. Anybody enamored of the current production stuff needs to look very carefully at the pictures you've posted as a reality check of what a fine Western toolmaker was capable of. Anybody who thinks this is being equaled today is full of it. They just don't get any better.

I couldn't resist using it, but I totally understand your not wanting to use it completely up.

 

[G S Haydon]

Just mopping the drool of the keyboard..........

 

[Dangermouse.]

I picked up one at Bude car boot sale 3 weeks ago exactly like that, same handle as well for £6.00. A nice little bargain !

 

[AndyT]

I see that Paul Sellers has mentioned Ward as being especially good in his latest blog post here

http://paulsellers.com/2014/08/which-chisels-should-you-buy/

So expect eBay prices to go right up.

 

[jimi43]

I see that Paul Sellers has mentioned Ward as being especially good in his latest blog post here

http://paulsellers.com/2014/08/which-chisels-should-you-buy/

So expect eBay prices to go right up.

Brilliant! Just Brilliant! Now the secret's out! :mrgreen:

Oh well...at least I have "quite a few" ....um....boxes to sort through yet from bootfairs past!

And at least we're fairly safe at bootfairs for a while...but certainly...any of the WARD...the old (and new!) SORBYs....MARPLES with an IRISH TWIST! (lucky they are!)....ADDIS...that sort of vintage...grab 'em and you will not be disappointed. London patterned handles...boxwood ones...or London Pattern boxwood ones...usually denote quality...in the old style.

And if anyone finds a Holtzapffel....keep it to themselves...i've only ever found two in ten years.

Jim

 

[memzey]

I bought one just like that in a boot fair today for 50p. I agree they are lovely. I had a suspicion that it was the top chisel of my lot when I got it home and had a proper play with it but good to know others like this maker as well. There is a pic of that particular chisel in my "Further adventures" post.

 

[bugbear]

I bought one just like that in a boot fair today for 50p.

You. Gloating. Swine.

=D> =D> =D>

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

Here's 3 Ward & Payne Firmers I inherited (surrounded by Stanleys)

Rod

 

[Cheshirechappie]

I think that's an early to mid 20th century chisel. Reason being that that the bevel-edged chisel was a rare thing before about 1900 (we had a long and rambling thread a few months ago which investigated this, and whilst we didn't prove it, there seemed to be good documentary evidence from old catalogues and books to support the notion).

One thing that's not in doubt - it's a very good chisel!

 

[jimi43]

I think that's an early to mid 20th century chisel. Reason being that that the bevel-edged chisel was a rare thing before about 1900 (we had a long and rambling thread a few months ago which investigated this, and whilst we didn't prove it, there seemed to be good documentary evidence from old catalogues and books to support the notion).

One thing that's not in doubt - it's a very good chisel!

I just saw the new "Noah" film and I could swear they were using bevel edged chisels in that! :mrgreen:

I bought myself a Rolex fake on the strength of Ben Hur so I know what I'm talking about where historical dating is concerned! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink:

I thought late Victorian simply because I have a selection of WARD "things" and as they go back in time the design of their stamping gets prettier!

Seriously though for a minute...looking through BPM III ....the WARD mark alone or with "& Sons" appears to be related to 1803 to 1845 at which point in 1845 on... the company concentrated on edge tools (and specifically chisels)...and carried the W&P mark.

I would be interested to see if anyone has their catalogue of 1911 mentioned in the BPM...as this might shed some further light on the various styles throughout the long reign of the company to 1970

Prof?

Jimi

 

[Bedrock]

Thanks for all your information.
Not being any sort of a tool historian, nevertheless having been using this weapon rather more recently (cross grain chamfer in oak - no need for any further finishing) it seemed that it might be older then it looks.
Is there a date when Ward became Ward and Payne or did they run in parallel for different tools?
I really like the crossed hammer stamp, and have assumed that the quirkier makers marks tend to be older. The etched makers marks we see more recently give the impression in a lack of confidence.
On the strength of all this, last week, I bought an out-cannel carving chisel, with a faint Ward stamp, octagonal handle which tapers towards the business end. From a quick clean up and preliminary sharpening, it neverless seems to bear testimony to it's maker.
Ward - where are you now?
Mike

 

[Harbo]

Here's a brief history

http://www.mot.be/w/1/index.php/WebLogo ... anguage=En

Rod

 

[Bedrock]

Harbo
Thank you for this. Does this suggest late 1800s/early 1900s, or post 1900?
Mike

 

[jimi43]

I think this handle thing has some mileage and may very well help us nail down...even estimated periods when a specific type of handle was the fashion...and thus narrow down the age of each tool.

I had the impression over the years that this type of tapered octagonal handle was late 18c...early 19c....

...but assuming that Mr Ward only joined up with Mr Payne in 1845 and this chisel clearly has the W & P mark...

....then this would suggest that this handle style was mid to late Victorian as the chisel is known to have been made after 1845.

That being said...it would appear that the "P" has been added...so I wonder if this is stock made before 1845 and sold on the cusp...or just after the partnership was established.

The old WARD "graffiti" stamp clearly shows that the "P" is added...

(sorry..old pic!)

Anymore thoughts on this subject?

Jimi

 

[Phil Pascoe]

But why would the "W" be stuck out to one side on its own if that assumption were correct?

 

[Harbo]

Deleted

 

[jimi43]

But why would the "W" be stuck out to one side on its own if that assumption were correct?

That's what's been bugging me all along Phil but I'm sure I have seen "Ward" only in that position on one of my tools...I just can't find it at the moment.

So what we are saying then is...these examples are all post 1845...correct?

Jimi

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Unfortunately all mine are in storage so I can't get to them to look.