War-era Stanley

[TomiRosso]

Have you good knowledge of Stanley planes which are made during or right after the war?

I got this English made Stanley no 5. Adjusting wheel is like USA made type 17. Castings seems to be quite thick. But one thing caught my eyes. Base under the frog. That is Y-shaped casting, which was not used at type 17 USA Stanleys. Could that be made first to British planes? Or could frog be wrong? Or does those features used when in England made planes?

Damn, my pictures are too big. I add those when I get at computer tomorrow....

 

[Vann]

Stanley bought JA Chapman in December, 1936, to form Stanley UK. So they had barely begun making "Stanley" tools when war broke out. Some of their early planes have quite different detail to what became the "normal" Stanley UK planes. They may even have made the early castings "in-house" - I don't know if JA Chapman had their own foundry, but nearly all UK Stanley castings were produced by Qualcraft.

I'll wait to see your photos before commenting further.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[AndyT]

As far as I am aware, there is no reliable "type study" of English Stanley planes, so it's not possible to be definite about the date of a plane from its design details.
What Vann says is a good start, though I think he has misremembered the name Qualcast, but I think we can allow him that, when he has contributed so much good info over the years!

 

[Vann]

...What Vann says is a good start, though I think he has misremembered the name Qualcast...

Oops!

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Rhyolith]

That same Qualcast that made mowers?

 

[AndyT]

That same Qualcast that made mowers?

Yes. As you found with SIF a small foundry can be a very flexible facility.

 

[Bod]

Qualcast also made Record planes, from the time when their frog became "ogee" in 1957-59.
Look for a feint "Q" in the casting, usually covered in paint.
Made in England, Stanley planes never really changed until plastic handles, so are not dateable, unless you have a receipt.

Bod

 

[TomiRosso]

Okei, now I got those.

Yes, I know there are no good source of type study of those. That's why I am interested to hear, if someone had same kind of features.

In USA types that Y-shaped frog seating is dated to type 19 (1948-1961). So I was thinking was British taking this feature right away to use also. Or was British first and USA copied that from those. How Chapman planes? How they were looking like?

Like you see, there are that sharp cornered iron too. So that is not modern production. Quite interesting piece....

 

[ED65]

I'm struggling to remember some of the things I've read about the possible dating of English-made Stanleys and what, if anything, they had to say about the plastic adjuster wheel.

There is always the chance this might have been pieced together from parts from multiple planes, not that it matters of course. And whatever it is it's in really tip-top condition so congrats on your buy!

 

[Vann]

Qualcast also made Record planes, from the time when their frog became "ogee" in 1957-59.
Look for a feint "Q" in the casting, usually covered in paint.
Made in England, Stanley planes never really changed until plastic handles, so are not dateable...

Quite right about the Record castings.

But I disagree about the lack of changes in the UK Stanleys. There are numerous little changes. The early ones (as mentioned in my previous post) are quite different in casting details. Later there were changes to handle nuts (aluminium for a period in the early 1970s); adjuster wheel (steel for a short time during the early 1970s); yokes (numerous changes). The top of the side wings were machined flat on early-ish planes (until late 1950s - mid-1960s?). The frog seating area changed (from 4 "pads" to eight). Five digit model numbers were cast into the base (1980s?), then supplimented by a "G" a few years later.

But as you say, without a receipt it's hard to pin down just when those changes came and went.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[TomiRosso]

I looked are there any casting markings. In body, there are marked number 1 under the rear handle. If I am right, Qualcast have Q and something? Or in Records supposed to be.

In frog there are marking at frontface, just under yoke. There are four letters, FFSB and at center of those are number 2. I resize pictures and ad those later.

Top faces of the sides looks that those are ground. They are not at raw casting surface.

I also have noticed that British planes live quite much their own live and are not matching anymore at USA made planes.

I also think that Americans are so conservatic with all that kind of things, so it is not impossible, that same feature is first applied to British made and after that behind the ocean....

 

[Vann]

...I also have noticed that British planes live quite much their own live and are not matching anymore at USA made planes.

I also think that Americans are so conservatic with all that kind of things, so it is not impossible, that same feature is first applied to British made and after that behind the ocean...

You are right. Stanley UK started with the features of the current Stanley USA planes of the day (type 16) and then made their own changes. I wonder if the first UK patterns were actually made in the USA (with appropriate changes)?

Record copied the earlier type 14 (or type 15) when they began production in 1931 (again with appropriate changes), and mostly retained that style for almost 30 years.

I think Canadian Stanleys mostly follow the USA types. As for Aussie Stanleys - well they didn't start production until 1964...

Cheers, Vann.

 

[TomiRosso]

Time Tested Tools got that some kind of draft of typing of English planes.

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/02/ ... udy-draft/

Sure, I can't know how reliable is that. But if that is somewhere close to reality, it could be interesting to see what kind of casting markings are at planes with rosewood handles. Or another one with that black adjusterwheel....

 

[TomiRosso]

I take quick look at my other English made Stanley, no 10. Frog seating was completely different. No help from that, but there was also marked number one under the rear handle.

With that I got quite a good gues for it age. It have original box and inside of that short booklet. There is marked year 1954 to that. And I found some information also at those boxes. It is possible that that box was used last time at 1959. So if that is true, that plane is from between those. Now it would be interesting to hear, is newer stanleys also marked with that number one under the handle. Or is this before Qualcast time....