Wall mount 16amp 2P+E - with interlock switch?

[Oddbod70]

Probably 10mm CSA cable, which should do 40A. You'll have to be going some to pull anywhere near that anyway.

You might want to put the protective covers back on the house consumer unit next to the B40. It looks like they have fallen out. (I know it doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world, but there will be a live bus-bar just under that, probably without protective caps too.)

TBH it's a fairly amateur looking job from a sparks, you sure the "electrical fairy" hasn't visited? (OK, you don't have to answer)

 

[Prizen]

I'll be honest, I did put in an extra MCB myself.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Pics of consumer unit in house, and then in shed. All done and certified by an electrician

I have to say, I pretty much stopped posting on this forum because my day job is related to electrical installation and machinery safety.
I found that my straight forward guidance on what was safe and compliant was not well accepted on here.
I have stuck around looking in at the odd thread here and there because I l love the passion and workmanship that goes into many of the items you peeps turn out.

Now, I'm still qualified and insured to do the machine repairs & electrical installations on the tools, my company (me) is still registered with a competent person scheme.
However, more often these days I find myself providing guidance and advice to others, such as machine builders on compliance with safety standards and manufacturing plants on PUWER compliance, or acting as an expert witness in legal cases regarding machinery or electrical products and installations.

I've posted now because having seen the pictures in post #19 in this thread, I am appalled.

If those CU's were installed by a competent and qualified electrician then he came on a horse and wore a stetson so I hope he was seriously cheap to hire.

Neither are compliant with the requirements of BS 7671 nor are they compliant with the product law for consumer units.
I seriously hope that you do not have a fire or other significant insurance claim at your home linked to the electrical installation because any insurance loss adjuster worth his salt would call in someone like me for a few £k and prove the install was not compliant and refute the claim.
It would then be down to you to chase the electrician's insurer to get recompense.

I note that a few of the posts have suggested that electrical work may be straightforward to actually undertake, but as those pictures eloquently illustrate it is also very easy to get terribly wrong without realising it.

 

[mindthatwhatouch]

Prizen,
Please get your so called Electrician back, not for some more work but to give you back the money you have paid him, and get someone else in to check, test and tidy up the installation.
At the very least put some blanks on the open areas of the consumer unit.

 

[bussy]

As oddbod said you don't want to be in front of the main fuse fuse if something goes wrong, at best you will be showered with moulten copper and receive flash burns to your face, arms or any other exposed skin. We had someone who actually caught on fire, we always wear 1000v rubber gaunlets, full face visor and fire retardant clothing, shirt sleeves must be fully down so no exposed skin.
This being said IT IS AN OFFENCE to remove company seals from the service fuse and metering, so pulling the service fuse isn't an option, you should get your supplier to install a double pole isolator if you need to isolate your consumer unit.
As others have said get blanking pieces fitted to the open areas on your consumer unit.

 

[Oddbod70]

Although I did not put it nearly that strongly I would not dissent, in any way, from the sentiments expressed by NetBlindPaul and mindwhatyoutouch.

I would just point out that Prizen is - apparently - located in Ireland where the rules are different. That said, and from what I know about the rules in Southern Ireland, they are close enough that I doubt that installation pictured could ever pass. Regardless of any regs. It does look dog rough.

NetBlindPaul raises a very interesting point, which is why people who are perfectly happy to take advice on other things plough ahead with really quite technically difficult electrical work without heeding the (usually) excellent advice that those in the know freely give. It’s often the same people who would hang on every word if, say, spindle moulder safety was being discussed.

I really don’t understand it.

Maybe it’s because a lot of the effort is around deciding what to do, not how to do it. All the customer sees is a bloke with a screwdriver, a wire cutter and a big bill. They don’t see all the work behind it.

I mean all that geezer Krenov did is glue a few bits of wood together. A couple of hours and a visit to the local DIY store any anyone could do it.

OK, I exaggerate to make a point.

This is not to say that all is OK with the electrical regs in the UK (or the building regs in general TBH) I see an appetite for over-regulation and change for changes sake. But that does not, and never will, excuse dangerous and shoddy work, whether from a “pro” or DIY.

I have seen good DIY electrics – including a bloke that rewired his entire house, including structured cabling, outbuildings, earth rods, the lot from books and youtube. Not a certificate in sight, but it was as good as anything I could have done.

I have also seen some really dangerous stuff. The bit of tape wrapped round a couple of twisted wire I can do nothing about. They are the ***** who knows it’s wrong and just doesn’t care. It’s the ones that skim read a few forums, watch the odd video, and try to do something that’s beyond them that scare me.

Anyway, enough on the subject. This is a woodwork forum!

 

[Spectric]

Anyway, enough on the subject. This is a woodwork forum!

I keep telling myself that, but while I am here lets throw something else into the mix!!! Using 2.5mm Csa twin & earth, your electrician must know that this only provides a 1.5mm CSA protective conductor so has he done the calcs for your installation? When I do outbuildings and the like I use plastic conduit and run singles so that all cables are the same CSA which ensures low earth loop impedances and peace of mind.

 

[Oddbod70]

I keep telling myself that, but while I am here lets throw something else into the mix!!! Using 2.5mm Csa twin & earth, your electrician must know that this only provides a 1.5mm CSA protective conductor so has he done the calcs for your installation? When I do outbuildings and the like I use plastic conduit and run singles so that all cables are the same CSA which ensures low earth loop impedances and peace of mind.

Haha, snap! Ive done that too!

 

[Prizen]

Regs aside, if you were to do a risk analysis on missing blanks between mcbs, what are the chances of an undesirable outcome and what ways might such outcome transpire due to missing blanks?

 

[spb]

A missing blank in the consumer unit means it's possible to poke a finger inside and touch the live bus bar at the bottom. Live parts accessible to fingers is the last thing you want in an electrical installation.

 

[guineafowl21]

Regs aside, if you were to do a risk analysis on missing blanks between mcbs, what are the chances of an undesirable outcome and what ways might such outcome transpire due to missing blanks?

You do have a point. As long as it’s out of the reach of children, there’s very little chance of someone sticking fingers in there. The regs get very excited about this situation - danger present, risk of shock, immediate action required. It does make sense to rectify it, since there’s no particular need to have the gaps.

The regs are, however, less excitable about toasters, where you can easily poke a live element while leaning on the earthed metal casing; and light fittings where you can grab the metal outer with one hand, and poke the live inner contact with the other. These things pose a similar shock risk, but are considered ok because we’ve always had them.

 

[tomlt]

Pics of consumer unit in house, and then in shed. All done and certified by an electrician

Sorry but if your sparky left that house consumer unit in that condition he wants reporting - I get that its an old unit and he's probably had to do the best he could, but the fact you have large gaps either side of that new MCB is unacceptable, someone who didn't know better could put a finger in there with nasty consequences. Please get that fixed, you can buy MCB blanking plugs on ebay/amazon that should fill those gaps, or at least put some tape over them!

Also not sure whats going on with the markings on your units at either end, but looks like they need sorting.

Good on you for getting someone in, but I'd question their competency based on the above.

 

[Oddbod70]

I think the points being made are...

1. You may know that that you shouldn‘t go sticking bits of your anatomy in a live consumer unit, but others following you may not. We are so used to risks being managed for us by regulation that we assume - incorrectly in this case - that things are inherently safe.

2. That was not left like that by a qualified sparky. either you did it or a cowboy did. So, that tells a proper spark that what cant be seen will be just as bad. And that might be a darn site more dangerous than a missing blanking plate.

I don’t defend regs for the sake of defending the regs, but equally I’m not going to say poor work is ok when it aint. Thats just a poor job mate. No point trying to argue its not based of some weird risk analysis. Just accept it.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

You do have a point. As long as it’s out of the reach of children, there’s very little chance of someone sticking fingers in there. The regs get very excited about this situation - danger present, risk of shock, immediate action required. It does make sense to rectify it, since there’s no particular need to have the gaps.

The regs are, however, less excitable about toasters, where you can easily poke a live element while leaning on the earthed metal casing; and light fittings where you can grab the metal outer with one hand, and poke the live inner contact with the other. These things pose a similar shock risk, but are considered ok because we’ve always had them.

BS 7671 will never get excited about toasters because they do not come within its scope.

If you look at the current design standard for both bayonet cap and Edison screw lamp holders, you will find that these require that there is a mechanism for disconnecting the live contact from the supply when a lamp is not fitted. Again however, these are outside the scope of BS 7671 as they have their own product standards and legislation which covers them. This is one of the reasons that BS 7671 requires that the parts you use when putting together the installation that it does cover comply with the. relevant product standard.

 

[NetBlindPaul]

Regs aside, if you were to do a risk analysis on missing blanks between mcbs, what are the chances of an undesirable outcome and what ways might such outcome transpire due to missing blanks?

I regularly do 3rd party risk assessments, in industry on machinery and electrical systems, and it would be nigh on impossible for an acceptable outcome with a CU in that state.

As the voltage present on the exposed live parts within the consumer unit is classified as lethal, then the outcome of contact would be death.

OK, only to one person, however, it would be extremely difficult to reduce the RA to an acceptable level without physical prevention of contact with those live parts.

So, what price a life, some organisations put this between £100 & £200k, though this is on the increase and does not inclde any potential legal costs or fines.

If you bring cost into the equation, even paying for a competent person to attend and fit blanks would be several orders of magnitude less than the price of a life, so it would be expected that this issue would either never be allowed to occur, or would be remedied immediately upon discovery.

I realise that this is your home and you have a certain level of control as to who enters and who does what. Also that workplace legislation does not apply, but it was yourself who suggested risk assessment of the scenario.

Personally in my home I would rather not have exposed live parts which have the potential to kill to be present or accessible in any form.

 

[Spectric]

Hi Paul

nicely put, to many people accept hazards in their own enviroment thinking the risk is low because they are in control.

 

[Prizen]

To all, a qualified electrician left the house unit like you see in the photograph. I have never had any cause to go near a consumer unit in any house I have ever lived in, other than to reset an MCB ( very rare). As for the shed, yes I did intervene there by adding another MCB for another light circuit.

The house consumer unit is further boxed into a cabinet with door covering it, and it is positioned right up at the ceiling.