Wadkin Planers / Thicknessers

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Simon":20vw5m4y said:
The test number for the BAOS is 661536 and the RAA data is RAA552 test number 6806. Any info would be great.
Well the BAO/S is a 1966/67 machine according to my information.

The RA predates the test number sequencing adopted in the late 1940s and so is probably a 1936 to 1942 period machine, partly because the brass name plates were replaced by steel ones during WWII and by ally ones thereafter, although by the late 1940s Wadkin did revert to cast brass plates on some machines. The other clue is the nomenclature. Prior to WWII Wadkin used to give their machines two letter names in the main, hence RA, RB, LS, EP, etc. The third letter would indicate the power source, e.g. "A" means AC motor, "D" means DC motor drive and no suffix meant that either there was no choice (i.e. the machine only came in AC motor or lineshaft drive method) or that the machine had been supplied sans motor and/or switchgear. Sometime around WWII or possibly shortly after the suffix letter for motorised machines was dropped as lineshaft/belt drive was by then disappearing fast (Wadkin's last full-line catalogue to list them was actually in the 1930s although individual brochures did list them much later) and DC motors were available to special order only. That's why I referred to your machine as an RA. Incidentally the first letter referred to the "family" of machines - "R" machines were always planers, thicknessers or planer/thicknessers (e.g. RA, RB, RD, RE, RM, RZ, etc), "S" machines were all rip saw benches (e.g. SO. SP, SR, SS, SW, etc), "P" machines were all precision saw benches (e.g. PK, PP, PU, etc), "D" were all bandsaws (e.g. DE, DR, DS, etc), "L" were all pin routers, borers or recessors (e.g. LE, LS, LL, LM, LQ, etc) and so on.

BTW, purely indulgence on my part, but here's my LQ, just after delivery :lol: :

IMG_0955.jpg


The colour is apparently what Rolls-Royce used to paint all their pattern shop machines in - much like ex-BAe Systems Wadkin machines are often to be found painted SCM desert sand..... yuk!

Things started to get a lot more confused after the Sagar/Bursgreen buy-out occurred with some machines originally built a Wadkin in Leicester being transferred to Bursgreen, Durham or Trawden and given a "B" prefix (e.g. LM borers became BLMs), some Sagar designs being retained to replace the older Wadkin designs and also getting a "B" prefix in front of the original Sagar name, e.g. the 6in BFS started life as a Sagar FS (and incidentally was the machine which replaced the Leicester-built RA small planer). Some machines even got odder names, like the AGS table saw (although there was also a BGS) and the MZC/MZF/MZM "family" of band saws. What was that all about?

Simon":20vw5m4y said:
Do you have any original info on the RAA? .... I have never seen any.
I have some data from the period. This is an RA in the 1949 Wadkin catalogue:

WadkinRA1949.jpg


Good enough?

Scrit
 
Wow that's great, the RAA came without a motor and try as I might I have failed to find a motor of the same frame size.

Some of the larger planers from the period appear to have an L-shaped plate that bolts to the slotted holes on the main frame, the motor then sitting on the L-shaped plate.

Eventually I gave up and I found a more comtemporary motor and attached it direct to the frame. Which, from looking at the picture, is how it was done originally, I just wish I could find a large framed period motor.

The belt guard was damaged too but I had some cast iron welding done and it is now keeping the belt safe.

thanks Simon
 
If you like the RA brochure, maybe you'd also like a BAO/S one. I'm sure I have one - somewhere.......

Scrit
 
Say, Simon....

I think you are in danger of giving up woodwork, and concentrating on restoring old machinery, for resale!

Traitor!!! :whistle:

Enjoy. I have a Coronet Major (Maroon) tht needs attention next!
\:D/
John
 
Simon
I am speechless (almost :D ). What a superb job. If I had seen such machines would have passed on by thinking that they could not be renovated. Certainly an inspirational story.

Cheers :D
Tony
 
Truly inspiring, Simon.

Most of my workshop equipment is similar old Wadkin stuff but I'm ashamed to say that although in good working order, it looks pretty much like your 'before' photos!

I wish I had the time, patience, ability, knowledge, wherewithall, interest, etc etc...
 
Hi Simon just joined the site tonight it seems to be a good site. I was looking though and noticed the article you did on your wadkin bursgreen 12 x7 planer thicknesser. wot a great job. I have the same machine at this minute in bits in my garage. I have been trying to change it over to single phase but hit all sort of snags. Can you please tell me how you went on getting up and running on a phase converter as every one i have spoken to says it can't be done. I have got the motors out at the moment and they are exactly the same as yours in pictures. they are just 3phase 440volt not dual voltage and the one that drives the rollers is a 2 speed 720x1440. I was told that i can not buy a single phase to speed motor and would have to get a box for speeding up and down and then the toque setting would be all wrong. I will be happy to have it running on 3 phase if possible. Really am stuck on this one . I have also been on to wadkin for parts got some off them but when i phone and emailed for casting spare parts they totally blanked me still not a word. hope you can help me thanks a lot alan
 
Hi Simon thank you very much for reply. I am in and out all day to day with work but if its ok i will ring you tomorrow afternoon for advise again thanks a lot Alan
 
Alan,

The machine can almost certainly be changed, stick around and a few of us on here can help.
Check out a sticky (I think) by 9 fingers there is a pdf on motors worth a read for yourself.
There are many motors around and many suppliers too.
You can also possibly get a motor converted, try your local rewind shop, if you can't get them interested I can arrange this for you, though carriage costs would be involved.
The guy I use is not cheap but he is GOOD.

Also as far as spares go, try AMS in the old Wadkin Factory in Green Lane Road, Leicester, I'm not linked with them but they can supply many old Wadkin parts:
http://www.advancedmachinery.co.uk/
Tell them Paul in Swansea sent you, they'll look after you.

I can get obsolete Wadkin castings too, though that takes a little time and is not cheap.

Wadkin are now gone full stop and the remnants have been bought over by A.L. Dalton.
A few of the former employees have been scattered around, setting up on their own etc.
 
Congratulations on a fantastic rebuild . Anyone thinking of buying modern machines should take note ,simple and solid . There are no plastic handles ,no thin 'tinny' fences and no plastic guards . Once again ,fantastic rebuild .
 
Hi Paul thanks very much for info will be keeping a eye out for more. I have spoken to local rewind shops and they say no can do. One of the motors is a dual speed motor and apparently they do not make single phase dual speed motors. Witch ever way i try to go i just hit another snag.I have been on to ams and had some parts but have emailed twice since and not received a reply. I will keep trying to sort out the machine as it is a good solid one and let you know how i go on. hope this gets to you as i am a bit unsure how to send mail on this site being new to it cheers Alan. ps It says in the manual they used to make a single phase version but i have never seen one unless its me reading it wrong.
 
Alan,
The message has come up in the thread rather than a pm, if that is what you intended.
No bother, I am not that good with Forums either!
I will ask a rewinder friend of mine if the believes that a 3ph 2 speed can be changed.
Other option is as has been suggested, get a high speed motor then fit an inverter, you could fit a change over switch to give you the two speeds fed into the inverter.
I have never been keen on this for "industrial" use but I don't suppose you will be hammering the machine?
Try ringing AMS on 0116 274 0532. Steve Fisher is their spares man.
 
I have a Wakin BAO/S in pretty good condition, but feel that the cutterblock bearings are a bit "grumbly". It makes a fair old row when running. I have disconnected the drive belt to isolate motor from cutterblock noise, and it's definitely the cutterblock. There is no play that I can see or feel, and the dust seals are intact.
How noisy are other people's?

Cheers

Mark
 
furnace":2tqactru said:
I have a Wakin BAO/S in pretty good condition, but feel that the cutterblock bearings are a bit "grumbly". It makes a fair old row when running. I have disconnected the drive belt to isolate motor from cutterblock noise, and it's definitely the cutterblock. There is no play that I can see or feel, and the dust seals are intact.
How noisy are other people's?

Cheers

Mark

Mark:

My first suspect would be bad bearings. Also check your belt to see if it's taken a "set".

Are there grease fittings? If so, greasing may help, but if the head is making noise, it's probably time for a bearing change.

Kirk
 
Thanks Kirk.

There are no grease nipples. It's a "sealed for life type". What do you mean about the drive belt taking a "set"?

The belt is actually a bit ropey and I am intending to change it ( before it breaks during a job :wink: ). It has a double pulley on the cutterblock but runs just fine with the single belt. Do folk here run it with two belts?

Anyone know if a car fan belt is a substitute? I was going to nip in to Halfords and offer it up and see if I can match it. It's 58" / 147cm long.

Cheers

Mark
 
furnace":1vr1hjzy said:
Thanks Kirk.

There are no grease nipples. It's a "sealed for life type". What do you mean about the drive belt taking a "set"?

The belt is actually a bit ropey and I am intending to change it ( before it breaks during a job :wink: ). It has a double pulley on the cutterblock but runs just fine with the single belt. Do folk here run it with two belts?

Anyone know if a car fan belt is a substitute? I was going to nip in to Halfords and offer it up and see if I can match it. It's 58" / 147cm long.

Cheers

Mark

By taking a set, I mean the belt has bends in it that won't come out all the way as it travels. Happens when a belt is under tension but not used for a long time. This will cause excess vibration.

A car fan belt will work fine, as long as you match the width. You may still want to go with two belts, but belts are better than they used to be, so you might be fine with one. My 18" thicknesser has only one belt, even with a 3hp motor.

As for "sealed for life", that means the life of the bearing. After 20 years or so, the grease in a sealed bearing tends to separate into the oil and the soap, and then you're on borrowed time. I think you're going to need a bearing change.

Kirk
 
furnace":x9na1q8r said:
Thanks Kirk.

There are no grease nipples. It's a "sealed for life type". What do you mean about the drive belt taking a "set"?

The belt is actually a bit ropey and I am intending to change it ( before it breaks during a job :wink: ). It has a double pulley on the cutterblock but runs just fine with the single belt. Do folk here run it with two belts?

Anyone know if a car fan belt is a substitute? I was going to nip in to Halfords and offer it up and see if I can match it. It's 58" / 147cm long.

Cheers

Mark

I rebuilt an old BAOS a while back, the thread is here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wadkin-planers-thicknessers-t15315.html?hilit=baos.

I used a multi link v-belt which saves any problems with set, if the machine is not used regularly.

Replacement of the bearings is an interesting process as you can see from some of the pictures, you have to warm the bearings (not too hot otherwise you will wreck them ... the SKF site has the recommendation if I remember rightly) and cool the cutter block (in the freezer for a hour or so). You then bring them together and the bearings push on by hand.

However you need to mark the position of the bearing that you take off with a scribe mark on the cutter shaft, otherwise you will not know where to place the new bearing. If you go ahead with the job I can provide some additional info.

Don't buy bearings from Wadkin unless they are as cheap as everywhere else, they are just standard bearings. I went with a double dust seal SKP bearing and have had no problems. That said the whole machine is not exactly quiet!

hth Simon
 
Thanks Simon. It is on "your" rebuild thread that we are now posting! I found it when searching for info on bearings for my BAOS.

I read the details of your bearing refit and had a couple of questions.

Did you insert the (cold) bearing in the (hot) cast iron housing, and then attach the combined (hot) units to the (cold) shaft? (Option 1)

Or did you put the (hot) bearings on the (cold) shaft and then attach the (hot) housings to either end of the (cold) shaft? (Option 2)

You talk about doing Option 1, but show a picture of the naked bearings in the oven.

You talk about scribing the cutter shaft to relocate the bearings accurately, but both the shaft and the housings appear to have shoulders against which the bearings would seat, thus determining the overall width. Thoughts?

I can determine no play in the cutterblock even using a dial gauge, yet it sound really groany when running. I would have expected it to run pretty quietly given such a stable mass and quality bearings. Is the noise you can hear from yours primarily motor noise, or does the cutterblock make a racket as well?

BTW, fantastic rebuild job. I hope you've got the fence down now and are enjoying such a fine beast.

Kind regards

Mark
 

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