Vinyl records

[Racers]

Hi, Wizer

If you are round my way feel free to pop in and have a listen to mine.

Pete

 

[tekno.mage]

Good stuff Mage, nice that I'm not alone

Personally I'm not a HiFi person and can't tell the difference between mid range and high end equipment. Technics 1210\1200's are probably the most popular record deck on the market and with a good cartridge I seriously doubt you'll hear any difference. You can spend thousands on HiFi. On my 18th birthday my Dad bought me a TagMaclaren system which was awesome.

Without wanting to get enmeshed in an audiophile debate, and having heard a vast range of kit from horrible consumer cheapies, top end audophile & broadcast & studio quality gear, I'd say that the actual record player (assuming it is of reasonable qulaity & not broken) makes far less difference to the sound than

1. The room you listen in
2. The speakers
3. The cartridge (when playing vinyl)
4. How well mastered the actual source recording was

My own system includes a pair of Technics 1210 MK11 record decks with ortofon cartridges, a pair of Tannoy Cheviot 12" dual concentric speakers (1978), a single Tannoy Eaton 10" dual concentric(1976) for the DJ monitor plus an optional stack of home-made speakers (5" tops, 12" mids,15" bass & 18" sub-bass) providing a 3-way split via active xovers & multiple amps. The amps are nearly all Yamaha ones from the 1980s 3 high power "HiFi" or "Home cinema" amps (approx 100 - 150 watts RMS each for the bass, mids & sub-bass) plus a couple of smaller (50W RMS) ones for the tops & monitor.

tekkno.mage

 

[Grinding One]

Good stuff Mage, nice that I'm not alone

Personally I'm not a HiFi person and can't tell the difference between mid range and high end equipment. Technics 1210\1200's are probably the most popular record deck on the market and with a good cartridge I seriously doubt you'll hear any difference. You can spend thousands on HiFi. On my 18th birthday my Dad bought me a TagMaclaren system which was awesome.

Without wanting to get enmeshed in an audiophile debate, and having heard a vast range of kit from horrible consumer cheapies, top end audophile & broadcast & studio quality gear, I'd say that the actual record player (assuming it is of reasonable qulaity & not broken) makes far less difference to the sound than

1. The room you listen in
2. The speakers
3. The cartridge (when playing vinyl)
4. How well mastered the actual source recording was

My own system includes a pair of Technics 1210 MK11 record decks with ortofon cartridges, a pair of Tannoy Cheviot 12" dual concentric speakers (1978), a single Tannoy Eaton 10" dual concentric(1976) for the DJ monitor plus an optional stack of home-made speakers (5" tops, 12" mids,15" bass & 18" sub-bass) providing a 3-way split via active xovers & multiple amps. The amps are nearly all Yamaha ones from the 1980s 3 high power "HiFi" or "Home cinema" amps (approx 100 - 150 watts RMS each for the bass, mids & sub-bass) plus a couple of smaller (50W RMS) ones for the tops & monitor.

tekkno.mage

And what dance hall do you play in England??

 

[wizer]

That's kind of what I was getting at TM. The record player, or rather the vinyl is surely the weakest link. You seem to have a similar arrangement of equipment to me and, as I said above, I can't really hear any significant difference between that level and the real top end audiophile stuff. Certainly nothing that reflects the price tag.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Wizer

I went to a HiFi shop with a mate to hear some record players we took his Thorens the sat us in the dem room and put on his deck playing through the same equiptment he had at home, it sounded fine, then they put on the Roksan Xerxes we turned to each other in amazment, as it made the Thorens sound broken! it was so much more musical, totally jaw dropingly better, its something that if you haven't experanced its hard to explain. And when you get to tone arms and moving coil cartridges its the same, you need to hear a good, well set up system to know just how good it can be.

Pete

 

[tekno.mage]

I can't really hear any significant difference between that level and the real top end audiophile stuff. Certainly nothing that reflects the price tag.

I've heard incredibly expensive supposedly "audiophile" kit that sounded a lot worse than my own setup, and other incredibly expensive "audiophile" kit that sounded about the same. I've only ever heard one system that sounded obviously better - but the guy was using a "very" expensive vintage valve separate amp and pre-amp system (can't remember which make) with a pair of Tannoy Westminsters - the source was tracks I was very familar with on CD and I personally think it was the Tannoy Westminsters that really made the difference. I will say though that it was the only "audiophile" valve system I have ever heard that didn't suffer from either 50Hz hum or excessive "valve" colouration of the sound (which I hate).

I've actually heard a mate's Thorens record deck and extortionately expensive cartridge linked up to my own system. It sounded "different" to my own Technics/Ortofon combination, but I wouldn't say it was better or worse - anymore than I'd say a Stanton cartridge is better or worse than an Ortofon - but they do sound different - each to what they prefer when it comes to cartridges I think.

tekno.mage

 

[wizer]

Yes I think it's just a question of preference. We're all built different. These Audiophiles obviously can hear an improvement. But I really can't, which means I just can't relate to it.

 

[Rich]

Seems to me that folks are looking for faults in the sound quality rather than enjoying the music, my old dansette and vynils are still goodenough for me.

Rich.

 

[matt]

You'll debate this for days when, in fact, it largely comes down to personal preference once you're out of the real bargain basement stuff. Some people love CD, others prefer the sound of vinyl. It's a bit like wine to me - lots of hype about what is best and invariably universal agreement about what really tastes awful, but then this huge swathe of middle ground where everyone seems to think they know what tastes other *should* like...

I've got friends who are delighted with their MP3 speaker sets meanwhile I much prefer the sound of my rather old Quad/Marantz CD/Gale (before Richer Sounds bought the name!!) speakers. I've spent silly money one such nonsense as inter-connecting and speaker cables but been pleased with the result. It's a sound I like and I know it's right for me because, after much fettling and experimentation it has since managed to stay sounding "right" (for me) for many years. I dread the day I have to replace one or other element.

If I were buying a deck I'd start with the Linn Sondek because I've used one with my system before and the sound was exceptional. That said, if this is possibly a short-term foray in to vinyl then there's often a Pioneer PL12 to be found for very good money. If buying second-hand just make sure you buy one that has been used and not stored for ages. Turntables tend to degrade if left in storage - and not just the drive belt hardening in my experience.

improvement

I'd say "difference". Improvement is directly relevant to the listener.

 

[Ironballs]

Appreciate what you're saying Rich, but when I upgraded my amp to the next one up the difference was like night and day, not just the power and volume but all the little sounds and nuances that weren't there before. Takes your enjoyment of the music to another level

 

[Karl]

Appreciate what you're saying Rich, but when I upgraded my amp to the next one up the difference was like night and day, not just the power and volume but all the little sounds and nuances that weren't there before. Takes your enjoyment of the music to another level

I agree - a long time ago, when I used to burn my money on audio equipment rather than tools, I upgraded my Denon amp to an Audiolab. The difference in quality was unbelievable.

Cheers

Karl

 

[richburrow]

WIZER
Jungle!!!!!!
Brilliant
Micky Finn what a ledgend.
I never did get lost in the long dark tunnel
:lol:

 

[Ironballs]

Appreciate what you're saying Rich, but when I upgraded my amp to the next one up the difference was like night and day, not just the power and volume but all the little sounds and nuances that weren't there before. Takes your enjoyment of the music to another level

I agree - a long time ago, when I used to burn my money on audio equipment rather than tools, I upgraded my Denon amp to an Audiolab. The difference in quality was unbelievable.

Cheers

Karl

Audiolab, very nice. That's what the What Hi Fi guys used to use as their reference kit back when I used to be up on hi-fi. That and a pair of Monitor Audio speakers.

Every now and then I wonder if it would be possible to re-body my AE speakers with a nicely figured real wood rather than beech effect vinyl over mdf - even though they sound good and weigh a ton

 

[Gill]

I was astonished to find that one of my old vinyl albums is worth so much. It has Vikki Clayton leading a folk-rock band called Ragged Heroes who used to perform free open-air concerts where I grew up. The fiddler had a phono-fiddle which he would play at ceilidhs and for the local morris dancers; their live performances knocked anything the Albion Band ever achieved into a cocked hat (IMHO).

I once saw the album quoted at £300 but to an aficionado of folk-rock it would be worth every penny. Ragged Heroes really were that good.

Gill

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I hate to say it but Audiolab where pants, dull as dich water, some of the HiFi mags recommendations where very dubious to say the least.


Pete

 

[woodbloke]

I'm going to resurrect my old system shortly. I got rid of my LP12 some time ago and just listen to CD's now through my Incatech Claymore (anyone remember them?)...at least I would do if I had some boxes! I'm after some genuine bookshelf speakers and have been recommended Epos(?) speakers but I'd rather make my own.
Are there any plans out there on t'interweb for small bookshelf speakers and before anyone points me in the direction of Wilmslow Audio...they used to, but don't now - Rob

 

[wizer]

and before anyone points me in the direction of Wilmslow Audio...they used to, but don't now - Rob

This is of no use at all. But last year when I was looking into this I found that one of the founding members of Wilmslow Audio broke off and was selling the kits and plans on a separate website. Damned if I can find it now tho!

What is it you're after, because Wilmslow appear to still sell kits.

 

[Sawdust]

I'm going to resurrect my old system shortly. I got rid of my LP12 some time ago and just listen to CD's now through my Incatech Claymore (anyone remember them?)...at least I would do if I had some boxes! I'm after some genuine bookshelf speakers and have been recommended Epos(?) speakers but I'd rather make my own.
Are there any plans out there on t'interweb for small bookshelf speakers and before anyone points me in the direction of Wilmslow Audio...they used to, but don't now - Rob

Have a look here: http://www.iplacoustics.co.uk/ Most of his kits are pretty good, maybe too large but he does have some smaller ones which might do for you. I built the M3Tls and I'm happy with them

Cheers
Mike

 

[Karl]

Hi,

I hate to say it but Audiolab where pants, dull as dich water, some of the HiFi mags recommendations where very dubious to say the least.


Pete

I don't recall reading any "dubious" recommendations, and I was an avid reader of the mags at the time.

Like all things audio, it is subjective. I doubt there are any products which are to everybodys taste.

Cheers

Karl

 

[xy mosian]

hi,

If you're thinking of bookshelf speakers.

Make the internal front to back dimension greater than 180mm, it reduces an audible echo effect to negligible levels.

If the speakers have two, or more, drive units look into the possibility of making the cabinet fronts mirror images, of each other. Also try to align the front surface of the top plates of the magnets. Both these troublesome details will greatly enhance the stereo positioning information.

xy