Vinegar and wire wool

[Phil Pascoe]

I can't find the thread about the oak coffee table that was to be stained with this, but here's a pic. of a couple of small bits of sapele I did out of curiousity in case anyone thinks to try it. Wire wool, malt vinegar and no added tannin.

The curves are from the saw, the top of the one on the right has one coat of Fiddes. The side of the one on the right wasn't soaked, it's just black from where the stuff has run.

 

[profchris]

That looks very useful. I was considering using oak for a couple of guitar fretboards, and this shows me it's worth experimenting. How long did you soak the wire wool in the vinegar? And do you know how deep the stain goes into the wood?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Only an hour or so and it looks to be a reasonable depth (deeper on end grain, obviously), although they are only small pieces so easy to saturate.

Have a look at - side-table-t108189.html

 

[custard]

No offence to Phil, but I wouldn't follow that recipe on an actual project that you've sunk hours of work into. Unless you charge the work piece with additional tannin, even on tannin rich timbers like Oak or Sweet Chestnut, you're very likely to get a patchy result. Every piece of wood is different so test on off-cuts first.

Even doing a pukka job the stain penetrates no more than a fraction of a mill, a couple of fine plane strokes and it's gone. There'll be some grain raising and sanding that away can cut through the stain on high points, which is why you normally need multiple applications for a really good result.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Certainly - I was only pointing out that it's worth experimenting with.

 

[profchris]

I was planning to experiment, and fretboards have several difficulties. The most obvious one is that once the frets are installed I have to bevel and round the ends, otherwise they cut the player's hands, and that process tends to take away some wood too. But am I guessing right that one can spot apply the mix, probably using an artist's paintbrush along the line of bare wood I've revealed?

The reason I'm interested is that ebony is hard to get, expensive, and has stability problems, while rosewood is getting scarcer. Both have CITES problems too, and though I don't sell my instruments I might give one to someone abroad. Oak makes a good fretboard but aesthetically needs to be darker.

The alternative is leather dye. I guess I should try both to see which looks best.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Of course fretboards may not be the perfect things to try, really, as they do get wear and tear.

 

[bugbear]

The reason I'm interested is that ebony is hard to get, expensive, and has stability problems, while rosewood is getting scarcer. Both have CITES problems too, and though I don't sell my instruments I might give one to someone abroad. Oak makes a good fretboard but aesthetically needs to be darker.

The classic wood for ebonisation is pearwood; I don't what all the selection criteria for fretboards are, but I note that the Janka for ebony is 3,220, rosewood 1,725, maple 1,390, English Oak 1,120 (all from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test)

Applewood is 1,730 (http://www.wood-database.com/apple/)
Pearwood is 1,660 (http://www.wood-database.com/pear/)

Bugear

 

[custard]

Pear is a favourite for ebonising for two reasons. Firstly the pore size is very small, and secondly, if you find the right piece of Pear, the grain pattern is almost invisible. Ebonising is a translucent finish, so the underlying grain pattern will show through. I believe Pear is often used for doll's house furniture and model ship building for similar reasons, the grain pattern is so indistinct it doesn't give away the scale. Holly and Box are similar but they're harder to find and generally come in much narrower board widths than Pear.

Here's Pear next to Oak,

 

[ED65]

profchris, here's a sample of oak treated with iron acetate with finish applied (BLO, then shellac):

Although it got a lot darker when the finish went on the colour on this piece of oak is definitely more like chocolate than entirely, and uniformly, black.

 

[profchris]

Thanks all - experimenting is clearly in order.

But I'm in no rush as the pair of guitars I've just started on will have Mother of Toilet Seat fretboards (white pearloid celluloid). Tasteful ... not so much