Victorian chair steps - WIP

[Alf]

Dunno about anyone else, but I'm too busy playing "Spot the desirable hand tools", with a side order of "I want some of that there timber, please" for variety. But seriously, Andy, I'm enjoying it and in awe of your bravery at even tackling it. I've only now realised I've failed to actually say so. D'oh.

Anyway, just to demonstrate I'm not solely tool and timber fixated, a passing agreement about the #66 and it's limitation on technique. It's great if you have reams and reams of straight-grained stuff to do - very comfortable to hold. But it just doesn't have the flexibility when things get a bit squirrelly. And something particularly satisfactory about a home brewed scratchstock running a bead, I think.

Oh, and what's the deal with mortising in the vice nowadays? I thought it was a no-no, but I noticed Paul Sellers was doing it in his DVD too. Don't tell me it was just a nasty rumour put about by woodworking teachers along with never putting a plane down on its sole.

 

[AndyT]

Oh, and what's the deal with mortising in the vice nowadays? I thought it was a no-no, but I noticed Paul Sellers was doing it in his DVD too. Don't tell me it was just a nasty rumour put about by woodworking teachers along with never putting a plane down on its sole.

I wouldn't normally do it - but I had failed to plan ahead and had shaped the top of the back cross-piece before cutting the mortices. So it seemed the easiest option. Also,it meant I could sit down and do it!

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. This chair is feeling considerably more complicated than stuff I've made before, and you will help me carry on!

 

[Corset]

I have to say I am really enjoying this thread. I never realised you could get that detailing on the leg with chisels. I always assumed that they were done with a moulding plane or such like. I am so ignorant!
Owen

 

[AndyT]

Ok, after a few weeks of interruptions (wonderful weather too good to waste indoors, trips out, other jobs etc) here's a tiny bit of progress on the chair steps. It's a distraction from doing the next, harder bit of construction, but I've been thinking about mouldings etc on the back. This is how it looked - all square edged and harsh:

What I've decided to do is to mould the edges on the slats, using one of my 'selection' of moulding planes. To run a little bead along the edges, I'm using this Bristol-made plane, which dates back to 1843-79 and was made less than two miles away.

One feature which is not always found is that the iron is sharpened obliquely, so the quirk is not at 90 degrees:

So, planing along the front edges of each slat produces this shape:

I'd actually got this far experimenting on offcuts, and realised that I did not have a no 8 hollow, so last weekend I popped into Bristol Design and bought a Mosely no 7 and a Preston no 8, for £3.95 and £4.00. It really is a luxury to be able to pop into a shop like that knowing that not only will they have what I need, they will charge a reasonable price for it.

So, using the two hollows, I shaped the centre flat, to make this:

Not a brilliant photo, but you should be able to see the gentle curves.

The next step was to put a bit more shaping on the top of the back. To mark a gentle curve, I use a bendy stick with a bit of string - the string catches in a saw kerf to adjust the kerf, then you draw along the curve with a pencil.

A little bit of work with a compass plane makes the back a bit less angular. I had bought a nice old Stanley Victor no 20, and then got a simple fixed woodie in a mixed assortment of tools. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, proving how useful it is to have a choice. (Have I used that excuse before at all?)

After that I used a spokeshave to relieve the edges a bit:

This is the result so far:

which may not look much different, but feels a whole lot better.

 

[gasman]

Sorry not to have commented before - this is awesome work done with lovely hand tools and is awe-inspiring. Thanks for sharing
Mark

 

[Alf]

I'd actually got this far experimenting on offcuts, and realised that I did not have a no 8 hollow, so last weekend I popped into Bristol Design and bought a Mosely no 7 and a Preston no 8, for £3.95 and £4.00. It really is a luxury to be able to pop into a shop like that knowing that not only will they have what I need, they will charge a reasonable price for it.

A person could go right off you, Andy... :x :lol:

Looking very nifty.

 

[kevin dwyer]

like those tapered legs, I really hard to look a few times on the original to notice they weren't turned.

what's with the woodturning Andy ? you can tell me, I won't laugh, any more than I already have that is ....

 

[condeesteso]

Absolutely ace! - hardly a hand tool you haven't used yet? The profiles will show up nicely once a finish goes on I suspect. And a slight relief to see a cordless charger under the bench there

 

[Blister]

Wow

only just seen this thread

Very nice work indeed =D>

 

[AndyT]

Thanks all, your encouragement is keeping this one going, but it may slow down even more - there are other things on the calendar at weekends, and a lot of planing that won't be very interesting. Kevin - the experimental leg is very rough. If it was a handle, it would become a smaller handle as I took extra layers off trying to find the nice smooth bit hiding inside, but a pair of legs have to finish at the right size, with the minimum amount of wood taken off. Also, one of the middle bit has that funny spiral effect you get when the speed is too slow and the wood a bit bendy.

I should also point out that the lathe is electric, as is the bandsaw and the table saw I did the preliminary cutting on, which is also very camera shy...

 

[AndyT]

A little update on putting right a couple of mistakes...

Here's an obvious suggestion: if you are measuring the length of a slanting piece, make sure that, when you mark the length, you look at the long side, not the short side. The last slanting leg would have been long enough, if I had marked the ends properly. I think it will be ok with this little extra bit on it though:

Also, if you need to drill holes for dowels, make sure you do them at the right end of your wood. I need dowels at the floor end, to make the join to the slanty bits. You can see here that I also have holes at the top, visible in this 'make it look a bit like a chair by standing the bits together' photo:

To make this look deliberate, I shall plug the holes. As they are countersunk, I need plugs which overlap. This much turning I can manage:

I hope these will look a bit like something holding the tenon in place!

I've also spent some time on these fiddly little bits - a haunched oblique tenon at one end and a sliding dovetail at the other:

I've also found that these oblique tenons are quite hard to do - nothing works until all the touching surfaces meet, by which time at least one of them doesn't! It's a comfort to know that the haunches will be permanently covered up by the seat.

Loads more to do; watch this space!

 

[shim20]

looking great, loving the hand tools work

 

[condeesteso]

A good read is this one Andy. Respect for publishing the errors... but then smoothly passing on to the haunched oblique tenon with sliding dovetail, like nothing had happened.
Beginning to look rather close... and I still very like those legs, good choice I think. All mighty fine work.

 

[Benchwayze]

Andy,

Some of that soft timber you have looks like Parana pine (Now very scarce, new).
I like the look of this project. Working by hand, as I know you do, gives a good feel for how things were back then. Making a reproduction piece like this, heightens that sense of contact with the past. So I hope it goes well.

 

[AndyT]

Well, nearly three months in, and nowhere near finished, but here's a little bit of an update, to prove I've not forgotten all about it. I'll miss out some of the obvious bits (lots of planing, even more staring at the drawing and wondering about things).

I've glued up the back legs to their adjoining triangles. This is how I managed to cramp up the rather odd shape:

The big old Woden cramp comes into its own as it can work at an angle - the sort of feature that looks useful but hardly ever is. It is held down onto the bench with two wooden handscrews - an old one and one I made as a copy. The slant mortice and tenon is held together by a long cheap'n'nasty F-clamp (with a special extra triangle to make it square) while a Veritas bench dog keeps the triangle pressed into the Woden.

I've used Titebond liquid hide glue on this project, which I like a lot - especially for its panic-free long open time.

Once glued, the tips of the triangles get sawn off square, ready to lap-dovetail a board onto them.

The dovetailing is potentially extra-tricky as the insides of these triangles are not flush - the back legs are thicker than the rest. I've decided to simplify it by taking the extra thickness off. First mark the depth and breadth of the wood to be removed:

The old gauge has its pin sharpened to a knife profile, which works well. The other device is also a marking gauge, specially good for doing very shallow lines such as for hinges. It's just a woodscrew in a scrap of wood, with its head sharpened by filing. (I read about this on Paul Sellers' blog.)

To remove the extra wood, a moving fillister works nicely:

or a big chisel is also just fine:

.

Lastly, planing off a little inaccuracy allows me a totally non-gratuitous shot of this little London pattern bullnose:

That's it for now - next time, dovetails and edge mouldings!

 

[Richard T]

re - haunches touching equally, I read something quite recently (was it on here somewhere?) about cutting them less than square - at a slightly acute angle to the tenon, to allow them to seat evenly ... would still need to be as accurate as poss. though, I guess, as this trick would seem to rely on a modicum of edge - squish.

Watching with interest Andy - we have floor to ceiling, wall to wall book shelves in here. Could just do with a one - of - them.

 

[AndyT]

With the haunches, I'm relying on the simple method of screwing the seat over the top of them so they won't show at all!

And if you need one, how can I break it to you? - I shan't be going in for bulk production of these - and if I did, the delivery time would be unacceptably long!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Wow - how on earth have I missed this thread? It's fascinating.

It's good to see someone making something a bit out of the ordinary, and taking on the challenge of the 'different'. Boxes and coffee tables are great, but there's only so many of them one household needs. There's also something very satisfying about stepping outside the usual run of projects, meeting the challenges and solving them. Good luck with the rest - though by the look of it, the job has gained it's own momentum, now.

By the way, could the timber be Butternut? According to Bill Lincoln's 'World Woods in Colour', it's native to North America, similar to Black Walnut but softer and lighter coloured.

 

[condeesteso]

Going very well Andy. This is a hand-tool 'fest' indeed. Re the Titebond liquid hide - there is a great deal to be said for a longer open time. There seems to have been a commercial race on for faster, and slower setting adhesives are rather uncommon. Try finding 'normal' Araldite in a local store these days... it's all 'sets in 5 minutes' stuff, which is a serious disadvantage in my opinion (which would appear to be out of fashion).
I did notice a change in the grain I thought - is this all the same stock, some recent parts look like mahogany? But I'm pretty sure the main bits are satin walnut...?

 

[AndyT]

On the timber, it's hard to be sure from descriptions and photos, but I think Satin Walnut matches in terms of being light, soft and easy to work. The pictures of Butternut that I found had a more interesting grain than this does. I will do some experiments with stain soon; I think it needs a bit of help!

I'm hoping that the wood will be strong enough - it's never far to the next joint, so I think it will be ok.

The back legs however are from something different, as I messed up the cutting list and ended up without anything long enough for them. I don't know the species - it came from a skip - but it used to be a hardwood conservatory, so it will be some mahogany-alike popular in the 70s. I had one big enough piece having already made a bed from the rest.

I agree about the glue - I have plenty of time, and some of the assembly is just a bit complicated. I used liquid hide glue on my last bookcase and was glad that I did, as some of the joints took their time being persuaded to come together!