No wonder we don't get recernised as an art form, the only website we have in the UK and nobody seems interested.I am really frustrated, you post comments on scroll saw work and nobody seems interested, we should take a good look at our USA cussons and take a leaf out of there book,at least they don't ignore you .Very disalutioned Mal
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Dalboy
Established Member
I know what you mean but we are not alone in Australia they seem to have the same problem. Even then I get more replies from their Forum than I do on any here in the UK
I'm not so sure you're being ignored, Mal; it may be a case of not knowing how to respond.
In this thread you reported how your work had been rejected by an art exhibition and you accepted there might be any number of reasons for this, including the possibility that your work didn't make the grade. However, when you contrasted it with pieces which were accepted and required a lower standard of technical expertise, you felt slighted. Perhaps the people you ought to have discussed this with are not members of the forum, but the organisers of the exhibition. I'm sure they would have told you what they wanted for their exhibition and why your work wasn't felt to be suitable.
I can understand your feelings. I've never been rejected by an art exhibition but I once enquired about enrolling on an art course and presented some of my work as a kind of portfolio. Although the admissions tutor was impressed by my work, I could tell we were on a different wavelength when it came to her understanding of art and my understanding of it. I toured the art department and was impressed by their facilities which included a fully equipped woodworking shop, including two pristine DW788s! But as I looked at the students work, it became clear to me that artists saw these machines, plus cameras, paints, ceramics and all the other resources at their disposal as means to an end. As scrollers, we tend to limit ourselves to our technique whereas artists don't impose such limitations on themselves. I also learned that artists think little of plagiarising their 'inspiration', but that's another matter.
It's very unusual for any woodworker to be regarded as other than a craftsman. The likes of Silas Kopf are very few and far between. Yet if you watch The Antiques Roadshow and its ilk, the presenters are just as likely to rave over a Chippendale chair or a Stradivarius violin as they are to enthuse over a Constable painting. Quality woodwork does have equal billing with quality art in the eyes of the public, no matter how much artists seem to believe otherwise.
Traditionally, artists have worked in their studios and sold through galleries, whilst woodworkers have worked in their workshops and sold through retailers. When artists or woodworkers become established, they can also sell through word of mouth. But what is important here is that art and woodwork have traditionally only ever been brought together when they have arrived at the home of the final purchaser; when the Constable has been hung above the Chippendale, as it were.
Matters seem to be changing now as more woodworkers and artists have a presence on the internet. Perhaps there is now scope for both disciplines to become closer, although I'm not sure how this can be brought about.
Gill
In this thread you reported how your work had been rejected by an art exhibition and you accepted there might be any number of reasons for this, including the possibility that your work didn't make the grade. However, when you contrasted it with pieces which were accepted and required a lower standard of technical expertise, you felt slighted. Perhaps the people you ought to have discussed this with are not members of the forum, but the organisers of the exhibition. I'm sure they would have told you what they wanted for their exhibition and why your work wasn't felt to be suitable.
I can understand your feelings. I've never been rejected by an art exhibition but I once enquired about enrolling on an art course and presented some of my work as a kind of portfolio. Although the admissions tutor was impressed by my work, I could tell we were on a different wavelength when it came to her understanding of art and my understanding of it. I toured the art department and was impressed by their facilities which included a fully equipped woodworking shop, including two pristine DW788s! But as I looked at the students work, it became clear to me that artists saw these machines, plus cameras, paints, ceramics and all the other resources at their disposal as means to an end. As scrollers, we tend to limit ourselves to our technique whereas artists don't impose such limitations on themselves. I also learned that artists think little of plagiarising their 'inspiration', but that's another matter.
It's very unusual for any woodworker to be regarded as other than a craftsman. The likes of Silas Kopf are very few and far between. Yet if you watch The Antiques Roadshow and its ilk, the presenters are just as likely to rave over a Chippendale chair or a Stradivarius violin as they are to enthuse over a Constable painting. Quality woodwork does have equal billing with quality art in the eyes of the public, no matter how much artists seem to believe otherwise.
Traditionally, artists have worked in their studios and sold through galleries, whilst woodworkers have worked in their workshops and sold through retailers. When artists or woodworkers become established, they can also sell through word of mouth. But what is important here is that art and woodwork have traditionally only ever been brought together when they have arrived at the home of the final purchaser; when the Constable has been hung above the Chippendale, as it were.
Matters seem to be changing now as more woodworkers and artists have a presence on the internet. Perhaps there is now scope for both disciplines to become closer, although I'm not sure how this can be brought about.
Gill
chrispuzzle
Established Member
Gill":3kd0x2s8 said:
I think you've put this very neatly, Gill. Artists, particularly contemporary artists, are expressing themselves, not showing off their technique. Many of them have no technique at all, of course, or deliberately ignore it, and that's where the general public starts to get uneasy. We especially don't like the idea that public institutions pay thousands of pounds for something "I could have made myself" (but didn't).
I do think a Chippendale chair is probably not an art work in itself: it's primary function is to be sat on, not to convey a vision of the world. Elements that are artistic and expressive of cultural values are there, but they are subordinated to the purpose of making a chair. That said, fine design and the fine arts are kissing cousins and the greatest craftsmen and designers don't think about academic definitions when they make beautiful things.
Carter has said before and I agree that freehand jigsaw puzzle cutting is a very artistic activity - after all, we cut without a patten and the line is in our heads - and the most celebrated cutters like John Stokes are often very artistically minded. I have high-falutin thoughts about my own puzzles which I largely keep to myself...but I would feel a bit of a fraud if I cut up a photo of a Brueghel painting, took it to an art gallery and expected them to hang it as a work of art.
On the other hand I've always written poetry and sometimes other work for my own amusement and occasionally the odd piece has been published. I've got ideas about how the things I'm interested in could be expressed through scrolling and through my beloved jigsaw puzzles, but I don't want to talk about those ideas or even carry them out until I feel good and ready. Otherwise it isn't something I'd want to put out there and be judged by as a person rather than a craftsman.
