Tyzack 1”(25mm) bore spindle moulder

[Joshua]

Good Afternoon,

I’m new here and to joinery, so go easy on me :lol:

I have recently purchased an old Tyzack spindle moulder, there are no model plates or serial numbers just a Tyzack plate.
I’m not 100% sure but from measurements it seems to be a 1” bore, it defiantly isn’t. The more common 30mm bore.

Does anyone know where I can find appropriate tooling for this size? I’m struggling to find anything.
Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[deema]

Just use top hat inserts to reduce the bore of 30mm or 1 1/4” tooling down to 1”.

Appleby woodturning do them as do others.

https://www.applebywoodturnings.co.uk/o ... -bore.html

 

[Joshua]

Your a life saver, I’ve clearly been searching wrong. What would you be able to recommend what tooling is the best for tongue and groove? I’m making wardrobe and cabinet doors.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[Trevanion]

It depends on the type of tongue and groove board you want, square sided, Single V, Double V, Radius, Beaded? Whitehill tools have an extensive range of Euro-style cutters for T+G, but they aren't cheap. There are cheaper versions to be had such as the CMT line of Euro cutters, specifically their 84,83,72,71,17,16 profiles, which I assume is the kind of thing you would be looking for. Of course with Euro style cutters you need a Euro block and the matching limitors for the cutters, unless you have blanks to put in place of them which I wouldn't recommend for a beginner. If you're going to get a euro block I would recommend a Whitehill block they're pretty much the same price as everyone else if not a little cheaper than some.

If you really want to get the most value for money when it comes to that you can't beat an adjustable groover, not only can it do grooving but you can rotate the plates so that they can cut very clean, square-sided tongues or even small tenons. Ideally you would want a set without a raised piece in the middle of the block as this will limit how thin you can go when you're setting the plates in reverse. A set like this would be ideal: https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-694-021-adjustable-groover-d-150-b-14-28-d-30. Of course it would only do a minimum groove of 14mm which would be useless for doing the grooves in T+G so I would recommend something like a grooving blade in the particular size you want.

 

[Joshua]

Thank you for your reply, I have added the adjustable groomers to my basket but I’ve also come across the following on Amazon:
EURO934030-1SAMB

Will It be any good?

Thanks,
Josh

 

[deema]

Trevanion has summarised everything you need. I personally would look at picking up a second hand aluminium Euro Block. This will have pins to hold the cutters and wedges that keep them in place. There is no setup required, you just pop the cutters and limiters in and tighten up the wedges and your good to go. There is a lot of ‘not fit for purpose’ Tooling being sold on auction sites, which you should avoid. Most of it won’t take limiters, or has the older versions of clamping which isn’t as ‘mistake proof’ as the modern stuff. If in any doubt buy a new block, they aren’t that expensive, and they are all the same (they do also come in steel and different diameters) for 40mm Euro cutters. There is in my opinion absolutely no difference in any brand of block apart from price and colour!. You will I’m sure at some point not too far away want a rebate block. Axminster Tools amongst others do a combined block that is both a Rebate Block (it takes standard carbide knives and knickers) and can also take Euro Cutters. For your spindle this may be a more economical solution in the longer term. With this one block you can do a wide variety of work. Tenons, Mouldings, rebates to name a few. With the addition of either a Wobble saw or grooves you will have virtually all applications covered.

Euro cutters are cheap as chips. By shopping around you should be able to but a set of cutters and the associated limiters for less than £20 (including VAT and postage) brand new from a reputable dealer. Again, they are all High speed steel HSS and Euro cutters have designated patterns for each number reference. This makes buying a cutter from anywhere easy as they are all the same......,,except price and colour! Once you have the limiters, you can buy the cutters separate when they dull for c£10. You can resharpen them by rubbing the backs on a diamond plate a time or two if you want before the profile starts to be too badly affected.

 

[Joshua]

Trevanion has summarised everything you need. I personally would look at picking up a second hand aluminium Euro Block. This will have pins to hold the cutters and wedges that keep them in place. There is no setup required, you just pop the cutters and limiters in and tighten up the wedges and your good to go. There is a lot of ‘not fit for purpose’ Tooling being sold on auction sites, which you should avoid. Most of it won’t take limiters, or has the older versions of clamping which isn’t as ‘mistake proof’ as the modern stuff. If in any doubt buy a new block, they aren’t that expensive, and they are all the same (they do also come in steel and different diameters) for 40mm Euro cutters. There is in my opinion absolutely no difference in any brand of block apart from price and colour!. You will I’m sure at some point not too far away want a rebate block. Axminster Tools amongst others do a combined block that is both a Rebate Block (it takes standard carbide knives and knickers) and can also take Euro Cutters. For your spindle this may be a more economical solution in the longer term. With this one block you can do a wide variety of work. Tenons, Mouldings, rebates to name a few. With the addition of either a Wobble saw or grooves you will have virtually all applications covered.

Euro cutters are cheap as chips. By shopping around you should be able to but a set of cutters and the associated limiters for less than £20 (including VAT and postage) brand new from a reputable dealer. Again, they are all High speed steel HSS and Euro cutters have designated patterns for each number reference. This makes buying a cutter from anywhere easy as they are all the same......,,except price and colour! Once you have the limiters, you can buy the cutters separate when they dull for c£10. You can resharpen them by rubbing the backs on a diamond plate a time or two if you want before the profile starts to be too badly affected.

Thanks Deema,
Have you got a link to the rebate block you mention please?
If what you say is correct then that’s probably my best bet.

Josh

 

[deema]

Here you go.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/whitehill-c ... k-ax823688

There are probably others who do it as well.

 

[Joshua]

Thanks for your help.
I have ordered m the Whitehill rebate block with a few cutters.

Josh

 

[shed9]

To add to Trevanion's comments about an adjustable groover, I have that CMT tool in the 14-28mm set and the 20-39mm version. I also use top hats to reduce 1.25" blocks to my 30mm spindle with no issue.

Both superb tools and worth the money. For what it's worth I get my CMT tooling from Mobiltecnica (Italy) and Appleby. Their respective service was superb and good pricing although I really can't complain about Scott and Sargeant either. All good suppliers. Give Appleby a call, the guy on the end of the phone is a woodworker and has real world knowledge in respect to your needs.

Only thing I would add would be to;

Buy the Eric Stephenson's Spindle Moulder Handbook, it's a good resource for all levels of skill so will find a use throughout the lifespan of your ownership of the machine. Can be a little more expensive than the usual woodworking books but worth the money. Besides I'd buy a slightly cheaper used copy as it's going to live in your workshop anyhow.

Also get a little training before you use your machine in anger. Perhaps drop Peter Sefton a ring to see if they do day courses for spindle moulders. I've been on one of his longer courses and well worth the spend. He's pragmatic, sensible and another person with very real world experience that is likely relevant to you. Spindle moulders are fantastic tools but I would personally recommend you understand it first via a good school or teacher.

 

[Trevanion]

To add to Shed9's comments about spindle moulder safety and training, which in hindsight I should have covered in my original post #-o

Somebody has uploaded Roy Sutton's video "Spindle Moulder for Complete Beginners" onto youtube. If you are indeed a beginner I would highly recommend it, even if you're not a beginner it's got quite a lot of interesting techniques.

[youtube]4n6yTHMBX54[/youtube]

Warwickshire College also have a good video on safety and setup of the spindle moulder, If a little over the top as you would expect in an educational establishment.

[youtube]B4Kqxl1P3EY[/youtube]

Dovetail Timberworks on youtube also has an excellent series of videos that cover more modern tooling from Whitehill.

[youtube]mylYGzZC2yU[/youtube]

Unfortunately there isn't as much information and videos to be had on spindle moulding in a hobby situation as there is for say router tables. There's not really much modern information in books either and as Shed9 said, Eric Stephensons book is possibly the only modern book, The rest are usually pre 1974 H&S act so they're filled with dodgy practices and out dated information.

"At the outset, a word to those who think the spindle a dangerous machine; most machines are dangerous if carelessly or improperly handled; Men have been killed with a drilling machine, fingers have been lost in a wringing machine. If a man works a deeply cut mould on newel caps 4" square by 2" thick holding them with his fingers against the slotted cutters, it is the man who is dangerous, not the machine" - H.R.Hudson - Woodworking Machinery 1946

Stay away from slotted cutters

 

[heimlaga]

Not to mention square cutter heads.
They are still very common in professional workshops but they are known as "kamikaze cutters" for a good reason. Some users prefete to put a 2 1/2 inch thick and at least 10 inhes wide board on the edge of the table to give their intestines some degree of protection against thrown knives. Outlawed in most of Europe in the 80-ies and 90-ies but as I said still very common. STAY AWAY!

Thouse one inch spindles are an outdated standard. In Finland and Sweden they mostly went out of use in the 1950-ies but in Britain they lingered on a bit longer. Nowadays 30mm spindles are the standard all over Europe though the Americans still use some one inch spindles.
Often it is possible to have a machinist turn a 30mm spindle that fits the old mount. A piece of good chrome steel shafting is a good starting point.
Top hats are good if you use only one head but once you start ganging several heads on the spindle they cannot be used.

My one inch belt transmission driven spindle moulder was not possible to convert because the hole in the table was too small to take an Euro head nor any modern head at all. It was apparently built for slip knife heads only. Therefore I conveted it to a heavy duty router table. Without destroying any original parts still in existance. I certainly have the oldest router table on the forum and the only one with square head bolts and whitworth threads. Probably made in the 1910-s or 20-ies.
In a couple of weeks it will be up and running.