Trad method of cutting rebates (replacement for router)

[ByronBlack]

I'm growing more and more weary of using a powered-router, and thinking of excluding it forever from my working practices (as much as possible). I've thought of better ways of doing most things except for cutting rebate and housing joints for shelves in the middle of a board.

Other than using a handsaw/chisel and hand router - is there a way to cut these using a plough plane or similar? I've always thought that you were limited to how far into a board you can cut these joints by the length of the fence on the plane or am I wrong there? Could I use a rebate/shoulder plane for this task - or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

TIA

 

[Paul Chapman]

Byron, you can use a combination plane. To cut a dado or housing, clamp a batten across the board to use as a guide for the skate to run against. When you've established the housing, remove the batten and continue. You will need to use spurs (nickers) or knife cut as it's across the grain.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

PS If you look at Alf's website here http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combinationplanes.html scroll down and go to the Record #050 manual, page 5, it shows it there.

 

[ByronBlack]

Thanks for confirming that Paul. I have had owned a combi-plane (record 044) but only ever used it with the fence and couldn't remember if you could start in the middle of a board. I must take my own advice and re-read Alf's article and maybe I can finally banish the tailed beast.

 

[Anonymous]

I've thought of better ways of doing most things

Just curious as to why 99% of woodworkers use routers if there are better ways of doing this work?

 

[ByronBlack]

I've thought of better ways of doing most things

Just curious as to why 99% of woodworkers use routers if there are better ways of doing this work?

It depends on what you define as 'better' really I suppose - its all down to individual factors. Also, not sure 99% of woodworkers do actually use routers - that is just a randomly made up statistic

My own personal definition of 'better' in this context refers to the following factors: slower-cutting (more control for me), safer, quieter, quicker in setup; Jigging and setting up a router for each new process seems to take an in-ordinate amount of time for me, cheaper; cutters cost a lot for good ones, etc..

I'm finding that by the time i've removed the fence and fence base from my router (triton) changed the cutter, made a jig or setup a guide, set the height of the cut, nibble away and then square up the corners (if needed) all the while hoping I don't slip and having to wear eye-protection, ear-protection, have the vac attached and so on... is getting too much for me to handle in the short amount of time I get in the workshop each time, hence the reasons why I have found 'better' ways of doing these tasks (rebating, grooving, edge-moulding etc..), doing them by hand or using other tools is just 'better' for me.

 

[Anonymous]

Also, not sure 99% of woodworkers do actually use routers - that is just a randomly made up statistic

Actually after your post I went out into my local town and randomly found 100 woodworkers, only one didn't have a router..... honest.
Randomly made up statistic my ****.

 

[Travis Byrne]

Also, not sure 99% of woodworkers do actually use routers - that is just a randomly made up statistic

Actually after your post I went out into my local town and randomly found 100 woodworkers, only one didn't have a router..... honest.
Randomly made up statistic my ****.

Obeone
I love it.
Travis

 

[ByronBlack]

Also, not sure 99% of woodworkers do actually use routers - that is just a randomly made up statistic

Actually after your post I went out into my local town and randomly found 100 woodworkers, only one didn't have a router..... honest.
Randomly made up statistic my ****.

Obeone
I love it.
Travis

And that is contributing to the usefulness of this thread how? If you have no input to the questions posed in the original post, why do you feel the need to add sarcastic replies?

EDIT: I apologise, that wasn't needed.

 

[Anonymous]

My reply was obviously light hearted. It amused Travis and he posted to this effect. Lighten up Byron, its saturday night.

 

[engineer one]

byron it is true you need to understand that when people answer here, they are offering their knowledge and advice, but if you work all week at the same thing you need to be a little light hearted at times.

i feel you do get a little sensitive about risible comments generally made in responce to your being pedantic.

what is strange you were very helpful to me in relation to my enquiry about the stanley plough, yet feel the need to start another thread to pursue what is essentially the same topic :?

personally i had the stanley, and thought to try it not least because my workshop is such a mess that getting the router table out is a major job of work. in addition i wanted to see whether i could do it, and also reduce the dust produced.

in my case, i am putting grooves in for shelves on cross rails that i have already tenoned, and that has made what i want to do more difficult, because of being able to hold the rails securely.

that has certainly stretched both my patience and my skill, but the first couple of grooves have been better than i expected which is good.

seems i sharpened the blade properly :lol:

you get decent shavings and in my case it is in oak, so it was an interesting learning curve. is it any easier to set up than the router not necessarily, because you need to learn how, but it is of course quieter
and does not produce dust :lol: it does produce a prodigious amount of wood waste though :roll:

with my stanley the problem i see is that the edges are not as sharp as i would like, but i can overcome that later, and could of course by a rebate plane with a set of knickers :twisted: or as has been suggested mark with a knife which i will look at later.

if you already have the tools they are worth experimenting with, not least because of the silence, but to buy or not to buy, there is the rub :roll:


so chill and consider what you are trying to achieve, and then see whether that is the way you want to go. then think about what people mean when they are being humorous, and switch the humour back on. 8)

paul :wink:

 

[Scrit]

Just curious as to why 99% of woodworkers use routers if there are better ways of doing this work?

That 99% are obviously people who approach the job all wrong! There need to be more hirsuited people like BB who are prepared to work themselves into the ground using antiquated tools and techniques to do basic drudge work. Why, I myself am seeking to have parliament mandate the re-introduction of the pit saw for ripping all solid hardwoods as a more aesthetically pleasing method of producing furniture timbers whilst at the same time providing gainful employment for young street urchins............

Maybe 99% use routers because dado planes aren't all that common. As to limited depth of working since when do you need to work a housing much deeper than 1/2in (12.7mm)? This is certainly one task (another being rebating) where the electric router is faster and more accurate and where doing it by hand seems a complete waste of effort

Scrit

 

[MikeW]

Dadoes? Is this thread about dadoes or rebates?

For rebates, the work is easily accomplished using a moving fillister plane. Even in my working shop, if the shaper was set up for something else, I would use this. For one or two pieces of furniture being made at a time, it is nearly as fast as setting up and using the shaper.

Antiquated or not, a typical carcass rebate is done in minutes.

Take care, Mike

 

[Philly]

Byron
For rebates the plane Mike showed in his photos is perfect - or something like the Stanley #78. Cheap, easy to find and a pleasure to use.
For dado's (cross grain and away from the edge of a board) then a dado plane is the answer.

Take a look here to see it in use. You know you want one!! :lol:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[DomValente]

And a brush

Dom

 

[David C]

Everyone needs that brush, I can't start work without mine and supplied the original MOD pattern to Lie-Nielsen.

I believe the spindle moulder does rebates much faster and more efficiently than a router and gives a superior finish.

However this is serious kit which many amateurs will not have.

The router will produce consistent repeatable results a great deal faster than a hand tool if there many to be done. Table use is usually preferable to portable function. I hate the noise, setup time and dust so sympathize with Byron but in a professional workshop there is no longer time for most to use hand tools only.

Barnsley reluctantly had to adopt "machine tools" after the war though Stanley Davies in Windemere carried on with his human powered circular saw till he retired in about 1972 or 3.

David Charlesworth

 

[DaveL]

If you cannot run to a Philly handmade one then Rutlands have this:

Incorrectly listed as a rabbet plane, it has the double nickers and Alf has one

 

[Lord Nibbo]

My first ever rebate at school was done with a tennon saw and a chisel, I don't recall ever seeing a stanley 78 never mind using one. :lol: Good old days ](*,)

 

[ByronBlack]

Cheers for all the posts fella's.

Paul - my mistake, I didn't see Obeone as being humorous due to lack of smiley's it seemed like a sarcastic dig. I've since edited the post with an apology. My reply to your thread and this one is quite different as my knowledge on this are rather small, but was enough to help you in the initial setup of the plane. I just couldn't remember off-hand if these planes could cut in the middle of a board and I still get mixed up with the terminology (rebate, housing, dado, etc..)

Scrit - for the amount of work that I do that requires a router is quite minimal so I don't really see it as drudge work, being a hobbyist means that I don't always need repeatability, I just need a tool that will allow me to get to the task with the minimum of fuss, for me personally, it just seems to take a large chunk of my workshop time just getting a router setup ready to go, i'm trying to avoid that - as well being able to work quieter so that I don't have to worry about annoying the neighbours in he evening.

So, to conclude, if I don't go down a combo-plane route, i'll need both a moving fillister for rebates, and a dado plane for going cross grain. Is there anything else that I may have missed that a router is commonly used for that I could do in other ways? (I've considered edge-moulding already as well as mortising and chamfering).

 

[engineer one]

moulding planes for each profile were of course available, and maybe these days not too difficult to find, but more so to sharpen. :?

the most important part is like routers to remember to do the profile on the end first to reduce break out.

amazing how that comment applies to so many actions particularly on small sections, witness my chipping some of my tenons because i did the sides first before i noticed it :?

the other lesson to remember is to properly mark each part to ensure you reference off the same edges and plane in the same places on parts which abut

paul :wink:

 

[DomValente]

I guess that the pros would regard doing this task by hand as unfeasible.
Setting up a router and fixing a guide becomes second nature and just as quick as preparing a plane.
Although sometimes I long to use more hand tools............... I didn't write that, where's the eraser.