Track Saws

[Woodmonkey]

My ts55 is great, i use it every day, but i would think for occasional use the scheppach etc will do you fine. Those who are saying just use a standard circular with a guide have clearly not experienced using a tracksaw, it is a world apart.

 

[marcros]

I am not confident that the garage is square enough to have them precut, but thanks for the suggestion.

I suspect that much as I would love the ts55, the more I think about it, it is just not within budget. I will look at the home made track options, but I don't have a circular saw so I would need to buy one. I would rather spend a bit extra and have the track saw I think.

So, in likelihood it will be the scheppach or triton, with a Freud blade in. If it isn't fit for purpose, it will be returned. If I use it so much that I we're it out in a couple of years I can look at a better replacement.

 

[Eric The Viking]

At least look at the Makita!

I think it's brill.

But no, the protractor is probably a waste of money. The issue is that, in order to fit into a systainer (mine fits in the one that comes with the saw), the arms aren't long enough for accuracy, and it's too sloppy when setting it up. It may work better on Festool, as the two rail designs are _very_ slightly different, but, if you're happy cutting quadrant slots in ply on a router table, you could quickly make something to work a lot better.

Don't let that put you off. The track saw is a simple and great concept, and there are a number of really nice ones from various manufacturers.

By the way, one of the selling points is the quality of cut.

Both Makita and Festool are set up so that there is a very (very) slight toe-in of the cutting edge of the blade towards the rail. It makes all the difference, and there are instructions on the USA Festool site for setting this up properly (only a couple of thou front to back). I'd wonder if the really cheap ones gave you that degree of precision. The quality doesn't drop off much as the blade wears, either.

 

[Doingupthehouse]

I have the DeWalt, it's a good saw, but I run it on a Festool rail - don't like the DeWalt rails very much. It's been very abused, I even cut plasterboard with it occasionally! That said I would buy the Festool if I had to replace it.

Cheers
Simon

 

[marcros]

does that mean that you can use the festool parallel guides and clamps with it then?

 

[Doingupthehouse]

does that mean that you can use the festool parallel guides and clamps with it then?

The DeWalt clamps fit the festool rail, so I would assume the opposite is true. Don't know about the parallel guides as I don't have them.

 

[MattRoberts]

My ts55 is great, i use it every day, but i would think for occasional use the scheppach etc will do you fine. Those who are saying just use a standard circular with a guide have clearly not experienced using a tracksaw, it is a world apart.

I'm not suggesting that a circular saw and home made track is the equivalent to a dedicated circular saw, but for light use, it's pretty damn close and about £200-300 cheaper than a festool

 

[Eric The Viking]

Makita and Festool saws happily run on each others' rails with some qualifications:

1. Festool sliding stops don't fit on Makita rails. Makita don't have any stops available (but they would be easy to make).

2. Makita track has a horizontal groove at the back. When you do bevels, there's a slider on the saw that runs in the groove, so that it can't tip off the rail. AFAIK, all rail saws tilt outwards to cut bevels, so that the centre point of the tilt stays at the bottom edge of the rubber strip (and thus the cut is spot-on accurate). This works well and I've been glad of it in the past.

3. Not a limitation: I use Festool clamps on Makita rails (coz they were cheaper!). I'd guess it works t'other way round, too.

It's worth mentioning that Makita 3m rail is a LOT cheaper than the Festool equivalent. So, if you don't want 3m bevels...

E.

PS: I do think, however, that it's a right PITA to break up 8x4 sheets lengthways by joining rails - the joining system simply isn't good enough really. That said, the longest cut I've made so far is about 4.5m, done by leapfrogging the 1.4m rails with the 3m one in the middle (I only have one joiner set). If you do get a rail saw, you won't regret getting a long rail eventually.

 

[beech1948]

Woodmonkey,

I saw your post and can tell you that I have used a Festool TS55 with a selection of tracks for the past 5 yrs.

I still use the wooden guides in my workshop.

I defy you to come here with your Festool kit and we can both cut up a sheet of ply ( I'll even pay for it) and then in some blind judging manner we will choose those cuts made by the Festool and those by my wooden guides.

You will not be able to tell the difference as to accuracy, clean cuts, etc. Its the results that metter not the glamour of the tool.

The Festool **** is simply better because of the systemised slightly more convernient approach not for better accuracy or cleaness of cuts. Its marketed as the bees knees but its simply that marketing. Festool is an expensive, clever way to get cash out of punters pockets.

I am workshop bound because I make custom goods so my wooden guides work well. I do have to fit my stuff in the homes and offices of clients and that is where I use my Festool kit but do I really need it ?????????????????????????

Al

 

[Eric The Viking]

What saw do you run on your wooden guides?

 

[beech1948]

Eric,
In the workshop its a Makita 5409 ( I think). Works well with a good finish on the wooden guides and well waxed. The Festool is packd in my van and I don't move it out of there to the workshop as its a pain remembering where everything is all the time.

 

[Wuffles]

Woodmonkey,

I saw your post and can tell you that I have used a Festool TS55 with a selection of tracks for the past 5 yrs.

I still use the wooden guides in my workshop.

I defy you to come here with your Festool kit and we can both cut up a sheet of ply ( I'll even pay for it) and then in some blind judging manner we will choose those cuts made by the Festool and those by my wooden guides.

You will not be able to tell the difference as to accuracy, clean cuts, etc. Its the results that metter not the glamour of the tool.

The Festool **** is simply better because of the systemised slightly more convernient approach not for better accuracy or cleaness of cuts. Its marketed as the bees knees but its simply that marketing. Festool is an expensive, clever way to get cash out of punters pockets.

I am workshop bound because I make custom goods so my wooden guides work well. I do have to fit my stuff in the homes and offices of clients and that is where I use my Festool kit but do I really need it ?????????????????????????

Al

Can I see a photo of your wooden guides? Your post sounds ridiculous to me, but perhaps I'm reading it wrong.

 

[RossJarvis]

In relation to the initial question, I would say that if you can afford it a tracksaw is a great boon, but not essential for the odd long straight cut. Before getting a tracksaw I used to run circular saws along straight edges clamped to the wood and got good cuts. The only main issue was effectively marking out the "offset" from where the straight edge was and the cut line was. Additionally, if doing a cut longer than 6' I had to move my 6' level to complete the cut.

A "track" can be made cheaply by fixing a batten along a piece of ply (thin and cheap) and just cutting along it so that you can line it up with the desired cut line.

So there is no real need to buy any expensive kit for occasional use. The benefit of a purpose made tracksaw is that it will follow the track and not move offline, although the track itself may move offline if not clamped.

If needing to do lots of long straight cuts and money is not tight get a tracksaw, if not it's probably wasting money.

In regards to those argufying, a good quality tracksaw will be a much quicker and easier way of getting a good clean cut but will not be better than alternative methods if time is not an issue.

From my experience getting a good tracksaw with the additional benefit of angled cross-cuts is a boon, Mafell used to do the only effective way of doing this but Festool have now copied them. With a good "crosscut" and track system, a handheld circular saw would do over 90 percent of a "table saw, mitre saw, circular saw" set of roles.

Mind you, it wasn't that long ago that all of this was done with some bloke and a flat bit of metal with some zig zags filed in to it!

 

[Woodmonkey]

Woodmonkey,

I saw your post and can tell you that I have used a Festool TS55 with a selection of tracks for the past 5 yrs.

I still use the wooden guides in my workshop.

I defy you to come here with your Festool kit and we can both cut up a sheet of ply ( I'll even pay for it) and then in some blind judging manner we will choose those cuts made by the Festool and those by my wooden guides.

You will not be able to tell the difference as to accuracy, clean cuts, etc. Its the results that metter not the glamour of the tool.

The Festool **** is simply better because of the systemised slightly more convernient approach not for better accuracy or cleaness of cuts. Its marketed as the bees knees but its simply that marketing. Festool is an expensive, clever way to get cash out of punters pockets.

I am workshop bound because I make custom goods so my wooden guides work well. I do have to fit my stuff in the homes and offices of clients and that is where I use my Festool kit but do I really need it ?????????????????????????

Al

Can I see a photo of your wooden guides? Your post sounds ridiculous to me, but perhaps I'm reading it wrong.

Yes, I'm interested how you don't get any tear-out, and how it can be more straight forward than using a track saw (any track saw really, if you read my post I did say that it doesn't have to be festool)

 

[MattRoberts]

Yes, I'm interested how you don't get any tear-out, and how it can be more straight forward than using a track saw (any track saw really, if you read my post I did say that it doesn't have to be festool)

If you look at its core components, the festool is essentially just a straight edge and a circular saw.

Sure it comes in a neater precision package that doesn't need clamping down etc, but it's not dissimilar at all to a circular saw + wooden guides - it's just more convenient

 

[Alexfn]

I have 3 tracksaws.. Dont ask why....

For me the best deal at the moment is this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00K67 ... r+BD1214SP

You can get the used one direct from amazon for 75 quid i bought used and it was brand new. It comes with a handy 1m track. Buy another length of triton track and you have 2.5m perfect for sheet goods.

Its a carbon copy of the triton and titan track saws that seem to be very close the makita.


Been using mine for a while. Cuts perfect and dust collection is good. Cant fault it..

 

[Woodmonkey]

Yes, I'm interested how you don't get any tear-out, and how it can be more straight forward than using a track saw (any track saw really, if you read my post I did say that it doesn't have to be festool)

If you look at its core components, the festool is essentially just a straight edge and a circular saw.

Sure it comes in a neater precision package that doesn't need clamping down etc, but it's not dissimilar at all to a circular saw + wooden guides - it's just more convenient

Matt, there are a few big differences,
1) you can set your plunge depth to the material you're cutting. This is (a) safer as you don't have a large amount of spinning blade protruding from the bottom of your workpiece and (b) means you can put your sheet on say a sheet of loft insulation or something sacrificial, as Eric said you can even do it on the floor. Try doing that with a trad circular.
2) The blade runs exactly along a rubber strip on the track (you cut the strip the first time you use it) so there is literally no tear out. The festool also has an attachment that will stop tear out on the waste side of the cut. I've yet to see how this can be achieved using a straight edge, unless you want to score every cut with a knife.
3) cutting angles is just as easy. Clamping a straight edge becomes more problematic if it's not at a right angle.

I'm not saying you can't cut a straight line with a circular saw and a straight edge, i used to do it myself, but most people having used a tracksaw would never go back (apart from Al).

 

[MattRoberts]

Matt, there are a few big differences,
1) you can set your plunge depth to the material you're cutting. This is (a) safer as you don't have a large amount of spinning blade protruding from the bottom of your workpiece and (b) means you can put your sheet on say a sheet of loft insulation or something sacrificial, as Eric said you can even do it on the floor. Try doing that with a trad circular.
2) The blade runs exactly along a rubber strip on the track (you cut the strip the first time you use it) so there is literally no tear out. The festool also has an attachment that will stop tear out on the waste side of the cut. I've yet to see how this can be achieved using a straight edge, unless you want to score every cut with a knife.
3) cutting angles is just as easy. Clamping a straight edge becomes more problematic if it's not at a right angle.

I'm not saying you can't cut a straight line with a circular saw and a straight edge, i used to do it myself, but most people having used a tracksaw would never go back (apart from Al).

Bear in mind we're talking about a circular saw and a home made wooden track - not a metal straight edge guide.

A home made wooden track can achieve all of the things you've listed (aside from the waste edge attachment).

As I've said before, I'm not suggesting that a home made track is as precise, easy and flexible as a proper track saw, but I'd argue it's a viable option for the OP's usage at a fraction of the cost of a proper one.

Enough from me now - we're in danger of derailing yet another thread with pointless argument.

 

[Wuffles]

Matt, there are a few big differences,
1) you can set your plunge depth to the material you're cutting. This is (a) safer as you don't have a large amount of spinning blade protruding from the bottom of your workpiece and (b) means you can put your sheet on say a sheet of loft insulation or something sacrificial, as Eric said you can even do it on the floor. Try doing that with a trad circular.
2) The blade runs exactly along a rubber strip on the track (you cut the strip the first time you use it) so there is literally no tear out. The festool also has an attachment that will stop tear out on the waste side of the cut. I've yet to see how this can be achieved using a straight edge, unless you want to score every cut with a knife.
3) cutting angles is just as easy. Clamping a straight edge becomes more problematic if it's not at a right angle.

I'm not saying you can't cut a straight line with a circular saw and a straight edge, i used to do it myself, but most people having used a tracksaw would never go back (apart from Al).

Bear in mind we're talking about a circular saw and a home made wooden track - not a metal straight edge guide.

A home made wooden track can achieve all of the things you've listed (aside from the waste edge attachment).

As I've said before, I'm not suggesting that a home made track is as precise, easy and flexible as a proper track saw, but I'd argue it's a viable option for the OP's usage at a fraction of the cost of a proper one.

Enough from me now - we're in danger of derailing yet another thread with pointless argument.

Whilst I agree entirely with the "this will do the job" aspect, a home made wooden track cannot achieve all of the things listed by Woodmonkey. Example, how do you manage tear out or cuts on thin stock (when you're allowing for the blade offset)?

 

[Eric The Viking]

If you've made your wooden track the "traditional" way, you will have trimmed the edge with the saw, in exactly the same way you do it with the rubber strip on a track saw. So it *ought* to take care of tearout in the same way too (as long as the surface of the track is flat and meets the stock cleanly).

There are two significant differences that I can see, but both of them only matter if you need to work in a particular way:

1. You have to apply some sideways pressure to keep the saw running against the wooden rail. That might be irrelelvant, or it might be a confounded nuisance, depending on how you work.

2. You can't cut bevels accurately with a normal saw running against a wooden rail. This is because the pivot point of the tilting blade is (usually) arranged to be either on the baseplate of the saw, or some point above it. So the distance from the wooden rail changes as you tilt the saw. This doesn't happen with a proper rail saw, as the pivot point is supposed to be set to the exact point where blade, rubber strip and stock all meet each other. So it *should* be just as accurate cutting a bevel as a squared-off cut. The other issue with the wooden fence is repeatability - try to make a bevel cut and you risk wrecking your wooden rail (the blade moves towards the opposite side, usually). And if you're a Makita SP6000 owner, that hooks onto the rail for bevels, as an extra safety feature.

3. (I know, I said "two"!): you'd have to find the right depth for scoring cuts yourself. That's not to say it can't be done, but it would be awkward. I do like the push-button feature, but it's not infallible. As I mentioned, the Makita is supposed to use 165mm blades, although you can use the 160 (Festool) size, but that messes up the scoring cut feature. Simplest thing is to drop the blade onto the workpiece, then add 1.5mm, so it's not that hard, but it is another thing to think about. Yes, you can do that with a wooden rail, too, but it's easier with a track saw.

4. (I know...): Track saws are set up to plunge nicely and have really low-friction rails. This makes them safer (probably), and it lets you do things that are otherwise hard, such as cutting notches neatly. I haven't yet tried to do bowl openings in worktops with a rail (what the plunge feature was originally intended for), but it should be pretty good and a lot nicer than a smoking jigsaw with a glowing blade! Generally, too, I like being able to concentrate on the actual cut and not worry about how hard (or where) I'm pushing the saw.

Obviously you get 90% of tracksaw functionality with a wooden fence/rail, but the more I use my tracksaw, the more I appreciate the easy setup and use, and the ease of getting accurate results.

Next purchase is an MFT, from Axminster probably. Again, I'm sure you could use a wooden rail, but for me, ease of use wins out.

I really don't miss my old circular saw. I gave it away, actually.

E.