Total beginner with sore arms seeks advice

[Keefaz]

Hi, all.

I've been trying to cut some tough walnut about 3" thick into more useful sizes by hand and I think the effort might be killing me. I've tried every saw I've got on the thing and hardly any of them are making a dent. Don't get me started on the lump of maple someone donated.

Does anyone have any tips?

Please!

Keith.

 

[Paul Kierstead]

I've been trying to cut some tough walnut about 3" thick into more useful sizes by hand and I think the effort might be killing me.

You don't say which cuts you are making (rip or crosscut). A rip of any substantial length with any handsaw is exceedingly hard work. Now, that said...

Make sure your saws are sharp.
Use coarse saws for the coarse work. Using a 15 tpi saw to rough cut a 8'x2' board into narrower shorter stock is going to needlessly wear you out. Use long saws for longer cuts and rougher ones so you can get the full stroke out of it.
Make sure you are using the right saw, especially rip saws for rip work. A good rip saw is extremely aggressive (although still
extremely hard work)
Make sure you are sawing at the right height and not making more work then necessary
Practice it so find an efficient stroke
And, of course, fitness comes with repition, and sawing certainly seems to use some 'unique' muscles.

PS: You didn't hear if from me, but the bandsaw is the hand tool users best friend.

 

[nonidentity]

No being an expert bit working with hand toolss a fair bit........may I suggest that your saws are pretty blunt thus you have a huge job on your hands.

I have used a japanese saws and are very impressed by how well they cut. The point that I am making is contrary to western saws you do not put pressure down into the blade and they are very sharp..........so an immediate response is the blades are blunt and need sharpening/replacing and you are putting too much down force because you are wanting to get finished.

The more force with blunt blade = more impatience = more force = slower progress.

Sorry, but I can certainly identify with your problem.

The folks on this forum have educated me on the facts and YES I have learnt sharp instrument = results.

Best of luck


:lol:

 

[Keefaz]

Certainly, the first saw I tried was incredibly blunt and I chucked it in the bin. The next I tried says 22" 8 points on the side and looked up to the job, but progress was just as slow as the crappy blade. The next says 14" and 16 points and seemed a little better, I guess it was sharper/harder but it was too small really to make much of a dent. The only saws I had left to try were my nice Japanese tenon saw and another regular tenon saw.

I didn't give those a go.

I notice that Axminster have a Japanese rip saw: has anyone tried that?

 

[JesseM]

I notice that Axminster have a Japanese rip saw: has anyone tried that?

For me japanese saws seem to cut well at both rip and crosscut. The number of teeth dictate how aggressive it is. Personally I have a hard time making a straight cut with a japanese saw. But they do cut very fast and smooth.

 

[Chris Knight]

Keefaz,
Certainly a Japanese rip can do the job - in the picture for example, I am ripping a piece of oak about 8 feet long and 30 mm thick. It will be easier to get hold of a Japanese saw that is certain to be sharp and a pleasure to use, compared with a modern western style saw. Having said which, I would have thought a hardpoint should do the job too.

 

[Philly]

Aw Chris-no split toe bootys??? :wink: :lol:
Philly

 

[Chris Knight]

Aw Chris-no split toe bootys???

Actually I favour steel toe caps and knee pads when operating saws near my lower extremities :wink:

 

[Shady]

Impressive Chris - having said, which, speaking as a middle aged westerner slowly recovering from a bad back, a 'good' big western rip-saw is a lot less strain than that pose implies. I know that covers a multitude of issues, but I'd want a big coarse rip saw for that job - and with a goody, it'll go surprisingly fast.

More important though, Keefaz, is what has been mentioned throughout - sharp,sharp, sharp, and the right tool for the job - which means that for 3 inch thick stuff, it should probably be a large and big toothed baby...

 

[bugbear]

Hi, all.

I've been trying to cut some tough walnut about 3" thick into more useful sizes by hand and I think the effort might be killing me. I've tried every saw I've got on the thing and hardly any of them are making a dent. Don't get me started on the lump of maple someone donated.

What are your saws, and how were they sharpened? The only saws I know of that are sold sharp today are from LN, Adria, and a few boutique-scale makers (hi, Mike!).

The pricier hardopints aren't bad, since they're ground, not filed. Not "nice" tools though.

Any second hand saw from a boot sale (or similar) will require careful sharpening, but will be a joy to use.

3" walnut should not be difficult to rip or X-cut.

I have never done a big resawing job; I have a friend (*) with a commercial size bandsaw, and I'm not a masochist.

BugBear

(*) I tune his handtools, he does "big" work for me. Deal works out well.

 

[Jarviser]

Keefaz,
Certainly a Japanese rip can do the job - in the picture for example, I am ripping a piece of oak about 8 feet long and 30 mm thick.

Chris - Don't try crosscutting that way!

 

[Midnight]

Keefaz... you're lucky.. it took a heart attack to teach me just how dangeroud a blunt saw can be...

check out some of these..
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/prod ... -23577.htm

they go through anything I set em to like a hot knife thru butter..

 

[Keefaz]

Keefaz... you're lucky.. it took a heart attack to teach me just how dangeroud a blunt saw can be...

check out some of these..
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/prod ... -23577.htm

they go through anything I set em to like a hot knife thru butter..

I'm a bit wary about a nice saw as I'm unsure as to how I'd get the thing sharpened. My current saws are cheap as chips and I'm not too fussed about throwing the thing away when it gets blunt.

 

[Colin C]

Hi Keefaz
If you put where you are someone might be near you that can help with sharpening you saw if you get one

 

[Midnight]

I'm a bit wary about a nice saw as I'm unsure as to how I'd get the thing sharpened.

honest answer... 2 years ago, neither did I... but necessity is the mother of invention.. maybe motivation too.. one thing about a resharpenable saw... it's gonna take a few lifetimes worth of screw ups before you've trashed it beyond recovery... there's a wealth of information online... some sharpening experts right here... poke around some.. give Google a work out... anything you're unssure about, ask... what's the worst that can happen...??? I'm sure the walnut and maple won't be the last boards to grace your shop....right...???

 

[MikeW]

Keefaz... you're lucky.. it took a heart attack to teach me just how dangeroud a blunt saw can be...
check out some of these..
http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/4/prod ... -23577.htm
they go through anything I set em to like a hot knife thru butter..

I'm a bit wary about a nice saw as I'm unsure as to how I'd get the thing sharpened. My current saws are cheap as chips and I'm not too fussed about throwing the thing away when it gets blunt.

But wasn't the point about the thread that the current saws can't cut it [so to speak]?

The cost of those in the link are relatively inexpensive and there's at least one person who can vouch for them, which is a good recommendation.

Many less expensive and arguably better vintage saws are available in the wild which can be sharpened for the rest of your life. That makes a good value even better.

Take care, Mike

 

[bugbear]

[

I'm a bit wary about a nice saw as I'm unsure as to how I'd get the thing sharpened. My current saws are cheap as chips and I'm not too fussed about throwing the thing away when it gets blunt.

(chuckle) The thing is, beatuiful old saws in good condition go for very little money at car boot sales; most people perceive no value in them.

10 quid is pretty much an upper bound.

This would get you a border line mint Disston, Tyzack, Spear & Jackson, Toga (etc)

I don't remember paying over a fiver for a saw, but I'm both tight fisted and patient.

If you're going to use resharpenable saws, you have no choice (in the current era) about learning to sharpen.

And if you learn to sharpen, there's little need to buy new modern saws.

Some info

Some saws

IIRC the most expensive saw on that gallery was 3 quid.

(and I have a few more saws than are in the gallery :wink: )

BugBear

 

[Keefaz]

Thanks, guys. As MikeW rightly points out, I need to do something as my current tools aren't up to the job. I suppose that means getting better, sharper saws however I go about obtaining them. I'll let you know how I get on.

Cheers.

PS. A terrible confession: I borrowed a circular saw off a colleague to get through the rest of that maple. Nearly deafened the missus.

 

[Colin C]

PS. A terrible confession: I borrowed a circular saw off a colleague to get through the rest of that maple. Nearly deafened the missus.

And that is a bad thing :-k :-#

 

[engineer one]

bugbear, i just found that i have an old (at least 30 years ) TOGA,

12 inches long with a steel back, and 3 1/4 depth. having never heard
of them before i was surprised to seen them in your list. seems about 12 tpi and cast steel it says,

so another slippery road to go down.
paul :wink: