Tormek T3 or Grinder?

[mqbernardo]

Thanks for looking,
I´ve finally had enough of reshaping/grinding bevels on my Coarse Diamond Stone. It takes quite some time and, to be honest, the stone (which is just 3 years old) seems to be wearing out (i use it to flatten my water stones - maybe that´s it?) and i just don´t find it fun anymore.

I´ve thought about getting a grinder but the ones available here have small wheels and are kinda fast (3000 rpm IIRC), and don´t have a way of getting consistent angles and square blades (to my knowledge, but i lack the experience), and TBH i´m also worried i could over heat the blade while at it. So, i wonder if a Tormek can be used successfully to grind back a bevel on a blade (successfully as in making it in some minutes, not in half an hour). Or, alternatively, should i stop worrying and just get a grinder and a proper tool rest? It´s meant for really basic stuff: I only use chisels and planes and use them at 25 and 30 degrees.

Thanks in advance,
Miguel.

 

[dann]

Robert sorby pro edge

 

[Peter Sefton]

We use Tormek for all our chisels and plane irons I would recommend a T3 for a occasional user, we find most customers who buy T7 need the extra speed or are commercial workshops.
Cheers Peter

 

[AndyT]

You are the only person who can decide how much you want to spend in return for simplicity of use and consistency of results.

A basic general purpose bench grinder will be under £25 and you can make angle guides from scrap wood for nothing.
A Tormek will cost you hundreds, with each jig or attachment extra. But you can clamp a blade in and let it run itself, almost.

I've managed for years with just a cheap grinder and a few oilstones, but I hardly ever find a need to grind tools.

 

[Billy Flitch]

Migeul, Andy is right only you can decide what way to go.I bought the T3 about ten years ago and if asked I just can not recommend it highly enough the difference between a T3 and a grinder is chalk and cheese.I have no problems recommending to any body taking up wood work as a hobby to buy a jig, some wet and dry, and learn just what sharp is.
But there is no way I`m going to while away the winter evenings pushing a iron or chisel up and down on a piece of wet and dry.The main doubt I had when I bought it was that I remember reading that it would only run for one hour continuously but in all the time I`ve had it this as never happened once.

A word of warning no matter who you buy the machine from it is basically the same machine to make them selves competitive some firms miss things off the machine. IE the angle finder the front bracket for the bar,the video.

To be honest you can live without the video,but the machine is almost worthless without the angle finder and you will need the front bracket at some stage. Also worth getting is the honing compound and the truing tool for the stone

Don't get suckered in with all the jigs most of them you can make yourself, which ever way you go good luck and enjoy it Billy.

 

[Farmer Giles]

There are three Tormek Supergrind 2000 on UK fleabay now with a variety of jigs. I'm guessing they will go sub 200 quid and if you get one with a decent stone and the jigs you need its a good start. Difference between a T7 and 2000 is a coat of paint and a switch as far as I can see .

I think sharpening is very personal and there are so many systems out there and every body has different needs. I very rarely use a grinder unless the tool has been badly damaged or needs a lot of meat taking off. For example I have the Tormek drill jig, its superb at sharpening drills but can take a while above about 12mm for the primary facet so I take a bit of that off on the grinder.

Cheers
Andy

 

[mqbernardo]

Thanks guys.
A Tormek does look tasty and fool proof, and the smaller T3 is apparently a little faster than the T7. OTOH it´s a big step up from a grinder, so... can someone advice me if the risks of ruining the metal on a grinder are as high as a Tormek selling guy makes you believe? (I mean , if you take cautions not to overheat the metal)

best,
Miguel.

 

[RogerP]

Thanks guys.
A Tormek does look tasty and fool proof, and the smaller T3 is apparently a little faster than the T7. OTOH it´s a big step up from a grinder, so... can someone advice me if the risks of ruining the metal on a grinder are as high as a Tormek selling guy makes you believe? (I mean , if you take cautions not to overheat the metal)

best,
Miguel.

I only use chisels and planes and use them at 25 and 30 degrees

I don't think you need an expensive Tormek just to grind the primary bevel on chisels and plane irons. Any grinder with a decent stone and an adjustable tool-rest will do the job. You shouldn't need to keep regrinding anyway, just hone the secondary bevel to keep them sharp, only after a long while or damage will they need a regrind.

Is see Tormek say "...........You will be certain to grind your plane irons and chisels with a perfectly square edge". Of course many (most) plane irons don't want perfectly square edge .... :shock:

.......... http://dblaney.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/the-shape-of-bench-plane-irons-the-truth-revealed/

 

[AndyT]

I agree with Roger!

When you do grind, hold the iron in your fingers. That way you will know if it is getting too hot, and stop for a while / dip it in water. Don't just hold the metal to the stone and expect a power tool to complete the task all in one go.

 

[tobytools]

I was going to go down the t3/7 path but in the end I went for a second hand record power bench grinder, veritas tool rest and a pink wheel to replace the original black one. (Rest and stone in post ATM)

This system was recommended from a friend.
Also it's similar to what they use at the Barnsley workshop.

Hope this helps.
http://www.peterchild.co.uk/grind/grindinfo.htm

TT

 

[Jacob]

Small diameter grind wheels are the worst option IMHO. Too much hollow grind, too hot, too difficult to do neatly. Edges look like they've been nibbled by rats.
Belt sander best - Sorby Proedge for choice but any belt sander will do (watch out for sparks and dust though!)

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Grinders, like many other tools, are one area where you can spend a lot or a little. A good quality 6" double-ended bench grinder capable of continuous running will set you back a couple of hundred pounds or more; a budget one for intermittent use could be picked up for about £30 or less. One trick to help when using a high-speed grinder for woodworking tools is to dress the periphery of the wheels to a slight (very slight) crown. This reduces the amount of metal in contact with the wheel at any given time, and thus the heat buildup.

A Tormek or similar wetstone grinder won't overheat tools, but it won't grind very fast either. You need to be patient. Another disadvantage is that the soft wheels tend to wear unevenly, especially if you've just ground several narrow tools. The wheels are not cheap to replace, either. One minor advantage is that it runs quite quietly.

I've owned and used the small Tormek (Supergrind 1200, 8" wheel when new) for a couple of decades, and whilst it's OK, I feel it's disadvantages outweigh it's advantages. I've never trued the wheel, despite which it's down to 7" and shrinking. It's also egg-shaped, which isn't really a problem, because I gave up on the jigs years ago, and use it freehand these days. Crowning a plane iron is dead easy freehand; damned if I know how you'd do it with a jig. I also have a little 4" hand-cranked grinder, which is almost as fast as the Tormek, but since I've shaped a couple of spare wheels with different radius crowns, more versatile. I can regrind in-cannel gouges on it; something the Tormek can't do.

If I where starting again, I'd get a decent 6" high-speed bench grinder. You don't need it very often, but when you do, you can have an iron reshaped in a minute or two at most. A quick swipe over the honing stones, and you're back at work. Using the Tormek, you'd still be faffing around with the jigs and topping the water-bath up.

 

[RogerP]

............
Belt sander best - ...........

.... that's what I mainly use.

Fit two half width belts and have two grades available at the same time.

 

[Corneel]

Small diameter grind wheels are perfect and cheap. Mine is the regular 150 mm one. I did buy an expensive Norton 3X wheel for it, 46 grit. That's a very soft wheel and it is almost impossible to burn an iron, but it works with the standard wheel too. Keep the wheel clean with a diamond dresser. Light pressure, fingers behind the edge to feel for heat and dunk in water when it gets warmish.

The resultant hollow grind makes free hand honing very easy, because you can feel it "click" on the stone.

 

[Grahamshed]

I think you just have to choose one, any one, then shut your ears to all the other opinions and just learn to use it. Otherwise you could be chopping and changing every week

 

[carlb40]

How about something like this or the many clones

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330946645737? ... 1436.l2649

I think pretty much all the Tormek and jet (cheaper) accessories fit the bar.

 

[Billy Flitch]

Just passing this forward to any one that's interested an egg in the grinding stone is caused by leaving the stone in water in the water bath. Once in the only way to get it out is with a truing tool.

 

[paulm]

Tormek's have no real benefits compared to the pro-edge, except for less possibility of burning an edge, but that's easily avoided with care in any event. On the other hand the pro-edge has a range of grits available to do rough to very fine grinding/polishing and quick to change over, and no water or faffing around truing up the abrasive. It's also much, much, much quicker.

I had both machines for a year or so and sold the tormek on in the end as I just never used it and went straight to the pro-edge every time instead for plane blades, chisels, turning tools and general grinding/sharpening duties.

A cheap 6" grinder with a decent wheel will do well also though, and I would go for the pro-edge if you have the budget, or a grinder if not. The tormek wouldn't figure in the reckoning for me these days since the arrival of the pro-edge.

Cheers, Paul

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Just passing this forward to any one that's interested an egg in the grinding stone is caused by leaving the stone in water in the water bath. Once in the only way to get it out is with a truing tool.

Acually, it's more complicated than that.

I've always been VERY careful never to leave a stationary stone sat in the water bath, right from when I first used the Tormek. However, what you can't do much about is that the stones absorb a lot of water (about a full bathful when they've dried right out), and as they dry out, they dry from the top. So if you use the grinder, then drop the water-bath and go do some woodworking for a while, then come back to it to use it, the wheel is partially dry on one side. The water doesn't then load evenly all around the stone, so parts of it's periphery are slightly softer than others.

The effect isn't really noticable at first. It's taken about two decades to develop about a 1/8" eccentricity. I could true it, but using it freehand, it doesn't really bother me.

High-speed offhand bench grinders tend not to suffer this problem.

 

[deema]

If your new to wood working and the daunting prospect of how to sharpen tools, a Tomek is the best investment you can make IMO. You cannot over heat any tool your sharpening, the jigs are excellent and it's almost impossible not to achieve the 'shave your hair' sharpness in a few minutes.

I have the T7 and buy the Jet jigs which fit and are just as good but significantly cheaper. It's great for hollow sharpening. If you knick a tool, it's very slow to grind it back. I have an 8" creusen High speed grinder for when that occurs (and for my turning tools).

I don't agree with the proposal of a cheap high speed grinder for anyone. A grinding wheel is probably the most dangerous piece of kit anyone can own. Look on uTube for videos of when a stone bursts. To be safe the stone must turn true, and must be properly balanced and setup. You need a machine with proper bearings and support washers for the stone and you need a stone with a properly formed bore. If you turn the grinder on and the stone wobbles from side to side, run away from it. You cannot re-balance it. If the stone is not round you can and should dress it to make it perfectly round.

It's very easy with any grade of stone, white Alu, blue pick etc to actually burn a tool. As you get the edge towards sharp the very thin tip of the tool heats up extremely quickly. It can be 'blued' the colour steel goes when raised above the tempering point whilst holding it with your fingers and the rest of the tool is cool. The bluing can be minute, but it means that the tool will not hold an edge where it has blued and must be ground out. The best way to learn is to buy a £2 chisel and practice. The only weight you should apply to a high speed stone is the weight of the tool, your hands simply guide the sharpening process.