Tormek help needed desperately!

[Smudger]

A Numpty Writes:

I bought a Tormek a couple of weeks ago, and I have been playing with it as time allows. I started with some block planes, and I was pretty happy with the results. But today I started on chisels, and a huge problem showed up.
The first chisel was a 1/4" mortice. It was a secondhand buy and had about five different bevels, so I set the stone to coarse and the angle to 30 degrees. I checked that the chisel was set square to the holder and ground away. The first problem was that the bevel did not cut square - it was off-square by at least a few degrees. It also seemed impossible to get a wire edge - a problem I had with the plane cutters as well. I checked the squareness of the chisel in the holder and the squareness of the stone and both were spot-on, but the bevel kept coming up off-square. I gave up on that one and tried another 1/4" mortice. which was much better. Encouraged. I started on a new 1" Stanley (the wooden handled ones they sell in France as Bailey). It was a horror story. The blade was square in the holder, but after a few moments I had got a discrepancy of at least 1/32 across the end. I tried favouring one side (I thought I might have been pressing more firmly on one side than the other) but it got worse rather than better.

Any idea what I am doing wrong? Should I get and use the small tool jig? What is the general advice for chisels?

Also - the stone is showing stripes as it runs which the blade does not clean off. Is that normal?

Other than that, and the mess all over the bench, I'm very pleased with it...

 

[Philly]

One thing to check is when you tighten up the tool in the holder. Make sure you tighten both thumbscrews the same amount otherwise it can tilt the blade giving the result you had. I had the same problem at first until I realised :roll:
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[Gary]

One thing to check is when you tighten up the tool in the holder. Make sure you tighten both thumbscrews the same amount otherwise it can tilt the blade giving the result you had. I had the same problem at first until I realised :roll:
Hope this helps
Philly

Didn't we all?

No doubt someone will have got it right first time. :lol:

 

[Smudger]

Ah! Makes a lot of sense. I hadn't been thinking of it as a 3-dimensional thing. Thanks - I'll give it a try.

 

[Joe]

I created a couple of handy skew plane irons before I worked this one out. Now I shine a light behind the machine and twiddle with the knobs on the jig until I can see the blade is lying flat on the wheel. Given it seems such a common problem, perhaps Tormek should warn against it in their manual.

 

[woodbloke]

There's a distinct knack to using the Tormek even when everything is set up squarely. I use forefingers close to the blade edge to apply pressure where needed and you can lift the tool holder slightly on the bar on one side or another using appropriate hand pressure, all of which helps to grind squarely. What's also very useful in a very small 2" square to check for squareness when the blade is in the holder - Rob

 

[Smudger]

Thanks for the prompt help, chaps, very helpful. That seems to have been the problem, though as you say, Rob, there is a knack.

I've just sharpened a plane cutter (standard Stanley) and when I checked it for set it took a skin shaving off my finger - thin enough not to bleed. How many thou is that? The chisels will take a fine cross-grain chamfer on end grain with no problem, and with a bit of care, shavings. (Little ones, admittedly).

Still a question - dirty stripes on the stone that don't go away with grading. Normal or problem?

 

[DaveL]

Still a question - dirty stripes on the stone that don't go away with grading. Normal or problem?

I get these on my Jet, they only go when I dress the stone with the diamond truing gadget.

 

[Smudger]

That's what I thought, but I haven't got the truing attachment yet. Do they signify any deterioration? It seems OK at the moment.

 

[DaveL]

I find that as long as I keep the blades moving the surface stays quite good, the danger with narrow chisels is grooving the stone.
I found the freshly trued stone cuts quicker. The marks I think are just the stone loading up with the metal removed from the blades, I guess that is why the trued stone cuts quicker.

 

[David C]

****,

The diamond truing device is essential in my opinion.

In fact the only time the bar is likely to be parallel to the stone surface is just after you have trued the wheel..... this is why I keep my bar set at about 9mm above the stone. (consistency of projection for plane blade angles).

One very useful trick, is to black the bevel with felt tip, before you start and every time you make a lateral adjustment with the two clamping screws.

The feedback from the removal of black lets you know what is happening.

David C

 

[Smudger]

Thanks - I've been using the marker trick to check that I am stropping the bevel correctly, it makes things quite easy, I find.

If you keep the bar at a consistent height I assume you get the correct bevel angle by measuring the amount of cutter projecting? That makes a good degree of sense, and it is what I have been used to on a big oil wheel and honing guides. Would be a lot quicker than fiddling about with the bar which is often a bit sticky.

Do you measure each time, or have you made a set of jigs?

 

[Steve Elliott]

I've been using a Tormek as my primary grinder for about seven years and can offer these observations:

1. The diamond truing device is essential to maintaining the stone. Besides becoming out of true, the surface of the stone gets glazed after a while and grinds much more slowly. After truing up the face of the stone there are striations from the diamond that don't cause any grinding problems because the blades are constantly being moved back and forth. The striations disappear as the stone is used.

2. The "right-angle" stop at the side of the blade holder isn't necessarily exactly 90 degrees. This doesn't matter on plane blades because the blade can be adjusted in the plane body to put the edge parallel to the plane sole. I use the right-angle stop on plane blades because it keeps the bevel position consistent though not perfectly square, saving grinding time.

3. For chisels, especially narrow ones, I clamp the chisel at the center of the holder so that I can apply equal pressure with both of the hold-down knobs. This gives no reference for setting squareness, which is good because most chisel backs are not parallel to the non-bevelled side of the chisel. To set the squareness (or skew) I start grinding at the heel of the bevel and compare the new grinding marks with the existing bevel. By rotating the chisel slightly to align these two grinding surfaces, I can get the squareness just right before I do any grinding down near the cutting edge. For this method it is important to check the squareness of the existing edge first, of course.

4. On my machine at least, the overall shape of the ground edge has never been exactly straight. Due either to the machine or my technique the edges of the blade are always a little bit long and the cutting edge is slightly concave. For this reason I always finish up on waterstones which I have flattened. Using the Tormek system for polishing wouldn't correct this and would leave the blade with a reverse camber, not the right shape for anything other than a spar plane.

I think you'll like your Tormek. It makes grinding much more relaxing and with a little practice it will give you an accurate grind.

 

[Nigel]

****
Are you trying with the latest Tormek holder as I like others were finding the origanal one awkward so after reading Keith Smiths review of the new one bought it and found it great without all the fuss of squares ect.

Cheers Nigel

 

[Joe]

The new SE-76 square edge jig seems to pretty effective at setting blades at right-angles. It doesn't quite give you a square edge "automatically" as is claimed though - uneven clamping pressure can still be an issue (that's been my experience anyway).

 

[Smudger]

It's the SV-H60 which came with the 1206.
I bought from Axminster - is there anywhere which carries a better range?

 

[Joe]

Have you tried Rutlands? They sell the new square-edge jig separately.

 

[Nigel]

The SVH-60 straight edge jig is supplied with the Tormek 1206 and the newer SE-76 was brought out with their latest model but will fit and can be bought separately, I got mine from Brimarc stand at D&M show

Cheers Nigel