Tools for accurate cutting and grooving MDF for dolls houses

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rjb":1n6va4b5 said:
I've also been looking at radial arm saws as suggested and these look like they may be more suitable in terms of size and function. I've seen several De Walt ones on ebay selling for £150 - £250, they have a decent sized work table and I think I can manage with the 2ft max cross cut. I am a little concerned about the accuracy of these saws as I imagine that any movement in the sliding arm mechanism could lead to inaccurate cutting of the sheet material.

The 2ft crosscut deWalts are the DW1751s and the later Elu/deWalt derivatives of same which aren't too common. Many of the saws offered are the smaller ones (i.e. shorter cross cut - the DW1251 or DW1501). RASs take patience to set-up, but will cut accurately - the thing that seems to kill the accuracy is swinging the arm to do mitre cuts all the time (better to have a mitre fence on the baseboard). I have a DW1751 (my third DW RAS) so I'm speaking from experience here! If you don't change the settings every 5 minutes they are capable of cutting straight and true, but they do require regular checking for accuracy - just like a sliding table saw in fact. If you are looking in this area I'd also consider two other makes, Stromab and Maggi both of which sell strongly into the trade market in the UK.

Scrit
 
Make one of these and use a hand held circular saw to break down large sheets if you don't have room for a sliding table. Some people recommend laying down an 8'x4' sheet of insulating foam board and cutting on that. You only cut a little way into the surface so you don't destroy the board too quickly. It's low tech but it is cheap and it works very well. Possibly not good enough for finish cuts but it is surprisingly good. In an earlier post I also recommended the Triton Workcentre, You can add the Maxi sliding table to that for about £100. Once set up it can be fitted to the Workcentre in a couple of minutes...makes cutting 8x4s singlehanded a doddle.

cheers

George
 
I've just used a saw board for cutting 8X4 sheets of 12mm ply whilst I was building my small workshop ........ I found it realy easy to use and it was as accurate as my measuring and pencil marks ....
 
If you use George's cutting guide and a top quality blade with at least 40 teeth, you will get accurate clean cuts in MDF.
Perhaps not as quick to set up as cutting on a good tablesaw, but it will work.
Brad
 
To my mind people are talking about making straight cuts, whereas I think squaring is much more of an issue. Anyone like to comment on how acccurate these devices are for cutting square?

Scrit
 
Hi,

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.

The saw board looks like a really useful piece of kit ..and so simple that I feel I should have thought of it myself. I may still end up getting radial arm or table saw, but I think this is definitely worth a try before I go and spend my hard earned cash.

Thanks again,

RJB.
 
Hi,

I've come accross a few references to router attachments for radial arm saws which I thought sounded quite useful for what I want to do, but I haven't managed to find any information on this.

Does anyone know about these? ..are they available for all radial arm saws or just specific ones? How well does this arrangement work & is it quick and easy to change between routing and sawing?

Thanks again,

RJB
 
rjb":2pjza868 said:
I've come accross a few references to router attachments for radial arm saws which I thought sounded quite useful for what I want to do, but I haven't managed to find any information on this.

They were formerly available in the UK specifically for the smaller deWalt radial arm saws (models DW125/150/175) and there were two versions: an "American" version (available in the 1970s) which replaced the blade and guard and was designed to hold a fixed base router (B & D HD1200 router, same size as the P-C fixed base routers) and a European version like this or this which was designed to hold a plunge router (Elu MOF96/MOF131/MOF177) by a pair of rods like the fence rods. Neither are made any more, probably because their main use was to cut housings. Rebates are more easily and accurately cut by inverting a router in a router table (from experience) and installing them was a pain. The fact that they didn't last long speaks volumes for their universal appeal

wrightclan":2pjza868 said:
Scrit":2pjza868 said:
To my mind people are talking about making straight cuts, whereas I think squaring is much more of an issue. Anyone like to comment on how acccurate these devices are for cutting square?
As accurate as your marking out.

That's precisely the point - you shouldn't ever need to mark out a square cut on a power saw - for speed and accuracy you need to have a fence or carraige which IS or RUNS square - if the saw/carraige can making a squaring cut, then it can already make a straight cut. Which is why people like me use radial arm saws and sliding table panel saws. Cutting a straight line is not the solution, I feel that being able to make a squaring cut EASILY is much more of a problem with these rail systems unless you intend to spend forever measuring and marking out. Marking out a square with a 6in joiners square is not going to be accurate over 3ft. Perhaps I see things differently because as a production woodworker the ability to square cut speedily and consistently and without marking out is essential to me being able to do the job and I don't feel that rail systems address this issue adequately - the Bosch rails certainly don't

Scrit
 
Assuming the board is square when you get it, mark off from one end,top & bottom and any line will be parallel to that face and therefore square to the other. Or use a 4ft folding stanley square.

Not many of us have the room for a machine that can handle a full 8x4 or the ability to safely lift a heavy one onto our saws and keep it against the fence.

Jason
 
Scrit":2044arkl said:
wrightclan":2044arkl said:
Scrit":2044arkl said:
To my mind people are talking about making straight cuts, whereas I think squaring is much more of an issue. Anyone like to comment on how acccurate these devices are for cutting square?
As accurate as your marking out.

That's precisely the point - you shouldn't ever need to mark out a square cut on a power saw - for speed and accuracy you need to have a fence or carraige which IS or RUNS square - if the saw/carraige can making a squaring cut, then it can already make a straight cut. Which is why people like me use radial arm saws and sliding table panel saws. Cutting a straight line is not the solution, I feel that being able to make a squaring cut EASILY is much more of a problem with these rail systems unless you intend to spend forever measuring and marking out. Marking out a square with a 6in joiners square is not going to be accurate over 3ft. Perhaps I see things differently because as a production woodworker the ability to square cut speedily and consistently and without marking out is essential to me being able to do the job and I don't feel that rail systems address this issue adequately - the Bosch rails certainly don't

Scrit

My point was that you can achieve accurate sheet cutting by a relatively simple method. I pointed out that it's not the quickest method--certainly not suitable for production work. But to get started, for little outlay, it will provide accurate, clean cutting of sheets. Also, rjb, to speed things up, you can use this method to cut your first sheets for templates, then use the templates for following with a router.

Brad
 
normanwisdom said that he worried about the need to buy expensive
kit for every operation, he is right BUT!!!!!!!!!!

many people who are now involved in woodworking have come to it
late, or even when young not had a proper apprentice ship or
training. one of the things that that means is that they are concerned
about the ability to get things square.

whilst i was a metalworking apprentice all those years ago, we learnt to
cut, and finish square and relatively quickly by using hand tools.
contemporary woodworkers also learnt to cut long bits of wood
with the hand saw, and became reasonable accurate in both
ripping and cross cutting. but, if you are a new diyer, you want something
finished in short order, and you want it to look reasonably like
something that you might have bought from ikea.
if you have had no training, then how do you learn economically
to cut both straight and true???? :? :? :?

all non professional woodworkers started out because they could not
afford to buy a piece of furniture or re-build things, and generally
have a problem making the budgetary decisions between mortgage
and tools that will not actually earn money.

since therefore almost all woodworking requires two specific cuts,
one rip and and a cross cut which is square to it, then it is logical to
look for a means to do that accurately, and relatively quickly.

the table saw is great if you have both the room, and the time
to make lots of case work. however, the saw and handrail system
offers many advantages for those who have little room.

when i started out again, i bought the wood from a yard who cut
the panels to size for me. and even now, if i buy 25mm panels i
have them cut down, because otherwise i cannot lift the b***y thing!! :lol: :lol:

like scrit however i do worry about the ability to cut squarely with the
rail system since in most cases the squaring portion is pivoted on such
a small area. before i got the table saw, i bought a number of large
framing type squares, but until i bought the edging clip from
LV that fixes on a square with two screws, i was concerned, with
good reason, that the square would move once i moved the saw.

even bessey clamps cannot guarantee that pressure placed at an
angle to their strengths will not move the bar, so what do you do then???

more importantly, sorry for the long windedness, a normal woodworking
square is almost never accurate. so you must look for something else.

the saw board offered is good, but how do you make one for
crosscutting???? :twisted: only when you can make
cuts along a 4ft edge at right angles to the longer edge do you have
the problem solved, and what do you use for your true edge????

have i murkied the waters even further???

paul :wink:
 
ok norm i almost surrender,
but the idea behind this thread is to sort accurate cutting.
so i thought further, and offer a solution.

make a cutting sled but for your hand circular saw.

so what you need to do is make a kind of shooting board, ie a
square end and at the other end a similar piece underneath, but at the
width of the pieces you want to repeat cut.

that way after each cut you just move the item up, that way you are exactly the same width and square to each other.

i know that this is cumbersome if you have many pieces, but not
if you have some restricted sizes to cut.

norm, no matter how careful you are, pencil lines always vary
in width.


paul :wink:
 
Without re-reading every post in the thread, I apologise if this has been suggested already...You can make your home made saw guide into a large T-square for square cross cuts. Make a 5' guide from an 8' factory edge off a sheet of 18 mm ply and use the remainder to make the crossbar of your T. Set it up initially with your biggest, most accurate square and attach it with 2 screws, make a test cut. If it's square, you're good to go, if not it is easy to make minor adjustments.
 
george, you are right

norm, still not happy about using the pencil idea.

by its very nature, i pencil is not the same width all along, and
thus can and will move as you mark any line against a ruler.
even if you cut a pencil lead with a knife, it still by definition
is tapered. it is not just the thickness of the lead,

this why most people suggest using a knife to make the lines,
thickening it up with a pencil if required.

realistically, you can only ever use a pencil as a layout item,
NOT an accurate marker, sorry it ain't possible to get real accuracy
with a pencil line. :cry:

that is why any kind of jig is always preferable if you are repeating
cuts to the same size on a regular basis. even astop block is
better than nothing.

paul :wink:
 
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