tool prejudices

[Anonymous]

I remember once reading a comment in one of Jim Kingshot's books where he had a japanese chisel and never thought much of it as he wasnt familiar with that sort, and he relegated it in his shop for scraping glue or some other menial task. Aparently he felt ashamed using it that way when he began to apreciate what could be done with them chisels. The point was that all along it had a proper purpose that hadnt been seen or used.
I have just used a smallish riffler rasp to shape up a saw handle, and I was very surprised with what it could do, I was prejudiced against rasps (for whatever reason, I dont know) thinking it was "cheating" to use one :roll: :roll:
I was wondering if any body has had similar experiences of changing their mind anout a particular tool that they might of not regarded highly, but when shown what it could do when properly set up & used became a big fan?
Might be interesting discussion??
cheers Jonathan

 

[David C]

Having tuned up several saws today, both European and even my favorite Sun Child Japanese saw, the answer would have to be yes.

I have a deep suspicion of handsaws having started with the poor offerings of the 1970's.

Getting very excited about a dovetail saw from Mike W which is getting closer, metaphorically.

The same goes for spokeshaves. Boggs L-N is a revelation.

Waterstone flattening devices, the Norton is working well though it needs periodic flattening. Two ceramic devices were so far out of flat they are a joke.

I had a burnisher/ticketer that was too soft to work in the beginning.

Planes did not work either.

I have a deep suspicion of any rosewood and brass composite, they cannot easily be tuned up.

Most marking gauges do not work, neither do cutting gauges come fit to work.

Plane blades were rubbish. chisels were too soft, etc etc the list is endless.

I sugested to my students today that 90% of tools sold to the amateur do not work well. Is this too harsh or is the true figure 95%?

David

 

[Philly]

Jon
The problem is that we Hobbiests lack seeing tools used correctly for their purpose. Oh to be an apprentice, watching his Master work. Also the Japanese approach (where the apprentice is not allowed to use the tools or to ask the Master for advice, only to learn through watching his Master work) makes a lot of sense, although at first seems harsh. :lol:
As to the quality of the tools for sale today, the mainstream stuff certainly if of a poor quality and needs tuning (some a LOT!). As Mr C is apt to say, "most planes for sale today are no more than a kit of parts". Very sad. Thank goodness we are witnessing a revival of the quality hand tool market. Lie-Nielsen, Veritas and the smaller cottage industry tool makers (like Mike Wenzloff and his boys, Blue Spruce, etc...) are producing tools as good as have ever been produced (if not better!).
Cheers
Philly

 

[Nick W]

For me it has to be scrapers. Just the name is off-putting, but then I managed to sharpen one properly, and now they come pretty high on my list of favourite tools.

 

[MikeW]

I would have to especially agree with Nick. For too many years the whole concept seemed crude to me. Backwards thinking. Of course, I tried them and only confirmed my pre-conceived prejudices.

Until I used one for more than scraping glue which another person had properly sharpened. That was darn near a revelation to me.

I would maybe add good squares to the list, too. I thought nothing short of working in a machine shop required good layout tools. Wrong again. That was the rough carpenter in me dictating that prejudice.

Good topic, Mr. S!

Take care, Mike
working on you know who's saw this weekend. Starting with cutting the handle out of a beautiful piece of ... :lol:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Yes, great topic Mr S

The two most recent ones for me were a leather strop and polishing compound for finishing bench plane blades and home-made MDF buffing wheels with polishing compound for honing shaped cutters. I just never thought they could be so effective so I didn't bother trying them till quite recently. They have transformed my honing Could kick myself now for being so stubborn :evil:

Paul

 

[Wiley Horne]

This is a very good topic. And I am yet another scraper convert. Not as a substitute for smooth planing, but as a tool in its own right.

A prejudice I had was against cambered blades. It seemed to me that thin, mic-able shavings was the mark of good planing. And it seemed that a jack plane was defined by its length, as in No. 5, not by its function. What a revelation cambered blades have turned out to be. And not only for jack planes. For almost every bench plane. It just changes everything about how one works, and for the better.

Wiley

 

[Anonymous]

Great replies gentlemen, interesting to hear what folks have to say on this topic

For me it has to be scrapers. Just the name is off-putting, but then I managed to sharpen one properly, and now they come pretty high on my list of favourite tools.

I know what you mean Mike & Nick regarding scraepers, its like well how can something so crude be a valid or useful tool?? :lol: I was the same way, but eventually learnt to sharpen them. Its fantastic to see a glassy smooth surface appear, and those dull grey rough ares melting away isnt it 8) !!

I would maybe add good squares to the list, too. I thought nothing short of working in a machine shop required good layout tools. Wrong again. That was the rough carpenter in me dictating that prejudice.

I once was in a shop looking at try squares and the shop keeper looked ready to take a swing at me when I asked quite innocently and casully if his squares were square :wink: I said do you know how to test them he says of course I bloody do, I'll try it against this one under the counter. :roll: :roll: :roll: I heard some where that up to half of all squares are not squares at all :lol: :lol: :lol:

cheers Jonathan

PS wiley, what is a cambered blade, I never heard of that is it when you have a slight radius?

 

[Wiley Horne]

Mr. S,

Yes, you have it, a slight radius on the blade (in plan view). It is an old method. Joseph Moxon in his 'Mechanick Exercises' ca.1700, refers to the foreplane has having a 'convex arch' blade, rather than being 'ground upon the straight' as smooth planes and joynters are...

Scrub planes tend to have about a 3" radius, and my jack (a Clark & Williams) has a 5-1/2" radius. A fore plane will have less radius yet. I like smoothers to have some degree of camber, though I can't say how much as I go by feel, and get the effect by differential pressure when sharpening. I would guess perhaps a thousandth across the blade.

Oftentimes, the camber is described as the amount of rise of the arch from a line joining the two blade corners. So Jeff Gorman in describing the set up of a jointer for edge-jointing talks about a 4-thousandths camber. Bugbear does similar at his website in describing how he made a cambered blade for a scrub plane. Mr. Charlesworth takes the same approach in describing the cambering of a blade for edge jointing.

A cambered woodie jack or foreplane takes a lot of misery out of rough stock preparation. The plane has an entirely different feel to it than when using a straight blade--very smooth and powerful, blade kinda sings, not so sensitive to lateral adjust. I'll quit here.

Wiley

 

[Paul Chapman]

what is a cambered blade, I never heard of that is it when you have a slight radius?

It's all explained very well in David Charlesworth's DVD on hand planing. Quite interesting if you've never come across the concept of planing boards flat with a curved blade :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Those last 2 comments are extremely interesting to me personally. I have a confession to make, I have always used a "cambered blade" without really knowing its name as such, but even though it worked for me, I tryed and tryed to get full width shavings with a square cut edge even though you get a ridge at the extreme of the cut (unless you raduious the corners) :lol: I thought this curved bade set up works but its not proper :roll: :lol: I knew the blade was curved as when I put a "square" square acros the end touching the 2 corners, you could see a tiny arch maybe 1/2 or 1/4 of a minimeter?
I find its like when they have one of those big metal planing machines that goes in narrow passes to do iron saw tables etc. I start on one side and gradually move to the other about 1/2" or so at a time. I find it easier to locate and deal with high spots too.
So is it "ok" to have edge jointed boards with a very slight concave camber :?: or is that out of order?
I know what you mean about the blade singing Wiley! In fact just as with a drum or cymbal you listen to see if its in tune When its flat etc you know somethings wrong.
Those clark williams planes look very english I think! It might have been Mr Kingshott once said that with a wood jack and a scrub blade you could take off shavings as thick as a mans belt :shock:
cheers Jonathan

 

[Colin C]

I guess for me the tool that I would not be any good was a cordless drill :roll: and I would stick to my yankee, that was untill I was helping a friend do up a pub and used his :shock: .

I have not be without one since :wink:

When it comes to scrapers, it was the first tool I learn to sharpen propely and have to use woods like satinwood ( very wild grain but very nice when finished ), it was one tool that I have always use .
Some how I found scarpers easier to sharpen than my chisels ](*,)

 

[Paul Chapman]

So is it "ok" to have edge jointed boards with a very slight concave camber :?: or is that out of order?

David Charlesworth would say it's the only way - and he has a very convincing DVD to prove it. Difficult to explain but all quite simple when you see it :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

The reason I ask is that is the way I do it, I reasoned that I'd get just that tiny bit tighter and neater joins without there being a void at the centres too wide for the glue. I take final freshly sharpened and very light passes down the centre of the edge and do this until the plane stops taking a shaving, is that it?
Your a good dvd salesman Paul :lol: , I think I'll look out for that hand planing dvd its my birthday soon any way :wink:
Cheers Jonathan

 

[Paul Chapman]

Your a good dvd salesman Paul :lol: , I think I'll look out for that hand planing dvd its my birthday soon any way :wink:

I don't get a commission on sales, honest :lol: I couldn't get my head around what DC was on about, despite reading one of his books. But having seen the DVD it all became obvious - I've altered my planing somewhat (for the better I think) since seeing it. Sounds to me as if you are almost there, without realising it :wink:

Paul

 

[David C]

Jonathan,

I dont think the void in the centre of the glued edge joint is significant, it may not even exist.

I see a minute hollow in width when examining the edge, but this hollow may only be 1/4 thou in depth.

Medium hardwoods are definitely compressible, so when clamped, with sash clamps I believe this hollow may disappear.

Whether it
does or not you get extremely tight joints at the surface, and I have not noticed failures.

David

 

[Anonymous]

For me it has to be scrapers. Just the name is off-putting, but then I managed to sharpen one properly, and now they come pretty high on my list of favourite tools.

Exactly the same experience here

 

[nickson71]

I'm just starting the scraper revelation too

 

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