To plane? or to buy?

[craigs]

Im sure this has been covered and the search button did indeed bring results on the subject but i couldn't find what i was really looking for.

So it seems the sawn boards are sooo much cheaper than PAR (obviously) But how easy is it to buy sawn and get a finished result? With limited space, a REAL planer/thicknesser doesn't seem to be on the cards anytime soon.

So my question would be, are there any recommended benchtop machines that would give favourable results? im not sure i would trust myself with an electric plane or worse, a hand plane, the results might be considered "abstract" rather than square.

Thanks

 

[RobinBHM]

If you are talking softwoid or hardwoid?

Softwood sawn is probably a different grade.

If you can machine yourself it opens up a lot of possibilities.

I think some members on here have found ways to flatten and plane sawn boards on a lunchbox thicknesser quite well.

Hand planing is a long process and might discourage you from getting far in a project.

 

[undergroundhunter]

I buy most of my harwood rough sawn and hand plane it, yes it takes a bit longer but its a good workout and I like a nice quite workshop. Once you have done a few boards then you become pretty proficient and it becomes a lot quicker. This was all made from rough sawn oak and all done by hand.

Matt

 

[craigs]

That looks nice!

I dont have the skill to hand plane, and the cost of those things are super expensive by the time you get the required selection

I was thinking of hardwoods and possibly a smaller planer/ thicknesser might be a nice balance between convenience and cost. but what are the results like ?

there seems to be items like the following, but im not sure i would trust a £250 machine

https://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/sche ... 42248.html

Im not a workshop or commercial, its just for making the odd piece here and there

 

[lurker]

I have not bought par for at least 25 years
I don't have a p/t
I do have a selection of hand planes I think the most expensive was around £15

Sooner or later you will need to learn to use one so make it sooner.

 

[Myfordman]

I'd work with planed timber to start with and light hand planing to final size if needed and when you feel your skills are at the level where you want lots of different size sections and you have a number of projects on the list, consider machining your own.
If you have to buy cheap, get new cheap with a warranty from a good supplier like Axi so if you do get a lemon you can send it back.
Cheap secondhand purchases can often mean you buying someone else's lemon. Old British cast iron will likely see you out before it fails seriously but you might not have the space for it?

Good luck

 

[RobinBHM]

That looks nice!

I dont have the skill to hand plane, and the cost of those things are super expensive by the time you get the required selection

I was thinking of hardwoods and possibly a smaller planer/ thicknesser might be a nice balance between convenience and cost. but what are the results like ?

there seems to be items like the following, but im not sure i would trust a £250 machine

https://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/sche ... 42248.html

Im not a workshop or commercial, its just for making the odd piece here and there

I would have a look for a 2nd hand elektra beckum 260 planer thicknesser a very good machine for the money. Theres one on ebay at the moment in Essex. (that model has been sold under a few badges, metabo for eg). Nb the pictures show it without a fence which shoukd be included.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I dont have the skill to hand plane, and the cost of those things are super expensive by the time you get the required selection?
Start with a 5 1/2, there is probably nothing that as a beginner you can't do with a 5 1/2. (I know others will say a 5, but that's another well done thread). Even if you buy good planed timber it will still need planing. Watch ebay and carboots for a while and don't buy any Record or Stanley that looks as if it had been made in about the last 40 years. The most I've ever paid for a plane is £30 for a beautiful old No.8 Stanley with a full "Sweetheart" iron. The guy doing the second hand stuff in the local market is asking £60 for really nice 6's and 7's which is expensive enough, but not ridiculous compared to the price of new (junk).
Watch Paul Sellers, so you have some idea what you're looking at -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyV6IU ... tml5=False

 

[craigs]

i think i need to buy a book on planes, knowing where to start with the vast array of them is daunting. jack? smooth? mambo No5?, block? the list is endless.

I do agree I need to start getting my hands a bit more dirty than relying on powertools for everything though

 

[Khendon]

I think it depends on your available time and your priorities.

I myself have no space for machinery (half of a single garage). I have a bench, small assembly table and a small 12" bandsaw. I also have relatively limited workshop time. Maybe an hour or two in the evenings after dinner, and a few hours weekend mornings.

Milling rough stock by hand is extremely time consuming, especially when you start out. I am spending longer preparing the materials than I am on the joinery with the small projects I'm doing right now, which is not ideal. The stock preparation is just a repetitive physical workout, it doesn't require as much skill/practice as the actual joinery does.

So it seems to me your choices are very much dependent on the relative value you place on the various activities.

From what I have read/listened to on the subject (Disclaimer: I am new myself):

Rough sawn stock is cheaper, and you have a good chance of finding something interesting, especially at smaller hardwood dealers.
What size projects do you work on? If you make big furniture, a bench top planer/thicknesser might be useless for half of your needs and you end up milling by hand anyway.
Is noise a problem where you live? The smaller/cheaper planer/thicknesser are supposedly horrendously noisy - 100+ decibels.
Do you have limited shop time and just want to get on with joinery? PAR might be best.
Are you open to a mixture of power tools and and hand planing? Some people use circ saw/track saw to square an edge, and a router with a sliding jig to flatten a face. Rarely see people advocate hand planers

Regards

Dave

 

[John15]

A planer/thicknesser is very convenient, saving a lot of time and effort, but in my experience there is usually some hand planing to do when making things, so you should develop your planing skills and not rely entirely on machines - practice makes perfect (I'm far from perfect by the way!).

John

 

[craigs]

so i think the way forward is this:

1)Make a jig for the router for flattening surfaces
2) cut to rough size using the tracksaw
3) hand plane for finishing.

Hopefully ill develop some skill in the process, and i can save a bit of money until i get a house with either a garage or a shed-worthy garden.

So a 5 1/2 bench plane is a good starting point? what about block planes? cabinet scraping planes?

Thanks for all the advice so far, this certainly is a helpful forum for new people like me

 

[Khendon]

If you're going to use power tools for squaring and flattening then probably a no.4 and a block plane would do to start with!

No.4 is a standard smoothing plane. 51/2 too big to use as a smoother.

I do everything with a no.5, no.4, block plane and sandpaper. can get more fancy planes later.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

5 1/2 is not too big to use as a smoother, no plane is. Good cabinet makers have been known to use only a No.7. for smoothing - a short plane is no use for truing stuff up. A five is fine, although I prefer the weight and size of a 5 1/2. A 5 or a 5 1/2 is only personal preference ; I owned a 3, 2 x 4s, 2 x 5 1/2s, a 6, a 7 and an 8 before I got a 5, and only had that because I was given it. I didn't own a block plane for the first 35 years and still use one only about once a year.
For a first plane virtually everyone would say get a No.5 or a No.5 1/2.

 

[custard]

Thanks for all the advice so far, this certainly is a helpful forum for new people like me

Except it isn't helping you.

We're all encouraging you to spend money like a drunken sailor, but none of it will get you any closer to being able to make even the simplest item in wood.

I thought you were essentially wanting to make built-ins and suchlike from sheet goods, in which case a load of Festool's finest makes at least some sense. However, it seems you want to use hardwoods. That's a completely different game. Working in a rented property without a permanent workshop area makes it a totally different game. In those circumstances you simply can't de-skill the process with power tools. What you're trying to do simply isn't viable.

There's maybe an argument for getting a small workbench with a decent vice and a small selection of handtools, then slowly starting to accumulate the skills to do something vaguely useful with them.

But there's a better argument for taking a week's holiday and signing up for taster course with someone like Peter Sefton or David Charlesworth. Or focusing on one area, say box making or windsor chair/stool making, and signing up for a week long course with someone like Andrew Crawford or James Mursell.

Otherwise you'll find yourself surrounded by a pile of expensive systainers with absolutely bvgger all to show for it.

 

[craigs]

bugger me

http://www.axminster.co.uk/hand-tools/p ... nch-planes

 

[ED65]

I dont have the skill to hand plane...

Neither were any of us before we did it

...and the cost of those things are super expensive by the time you get the required selection

Not if you buy selectively. Obviously the secondhand market is a potential goldmine for cheap, good (and sometimes excellent) older kit but there are a few current makers offering planes that can make decent users, which prices from quite cheap (Silverline) to relatively inexpensive (Faithfull, Rider). Whichever way you would prefer to go deffo you can get enough bench planes for basic dimensioning work for less than the cost of a half-decent planer/thicknesser.

 

[craigs]

Except it isn't helping you.

We're all encouraging you to spend money like a drunken sailor, but none of it will get you any closer to being able to make even the simplest item in wood.

I thought you were essentially wanting to make built-ins and suchlike from sheet goods, in which case a load of Festool's finest makes at least some sense. However, it seems you want to use hardwoods. That's a completely different game. Working in a rented property without a permanent workshop area makes it a totally different game. In those circumstances you simply can't de-skill the process with power tools. What you're trying to do simply isn't viable.

There's maybe an argument for getting a small workbench with a decent vice and a small selection of handtools, then slowly starting to accumulate the skills to do something vaguely useful with them.

But there's a better argument for taking a week's holiday and signing up for taster course with someone like Peter Sefton or David Charlesworth. Or focusing on one area, say box making or windsor chair/stool making, and signing up for a week long course with someone like Andrew Crawford or James Mursell.

Otherwise you'll find yourself surrounded by a pile of expensive systainers with absolutely bvgger all to show for it.

damn i have been rumbled

I have made a few tables and bookcases, but that was a while ago (20 years) and in softwood.

I do have TV cabinet which will be a stacked laminate ply project, but thats all in that material.

I think a lot of this comes from the enjoyment I used to get working with wood and making small furniture items back when i did have my own house, with the tools and the space. alas I then left the country and sold all my tools prior.

Now I find myself back in the UK and using a computer 24/7. Therefore I want to get back into working with material of choice and stepping away from the sceens, back to doing what i really enjoyed.

I only discovered Festool recently and very impressed with their lineup, so i dont mind spending the money and they will last a good long while, but being out of tool buying for a long time, i require others wisdom

I will be taking a look at courses, maybe next year i can look at something.

** I do generally do a fair amount of research, but planes have never been a strong point :?

 

[skipdiver]

You could buy a planer/thicknesser but that's only the start of it. You would need somewhere to keep it and use it, with plenty of space to feed wood in one end and out of the other. Putting a 6ft board through the machine requires about 15ft of space. then there is the noise they make and finally the dust and chippings they throw out, which is quite considerable. You really need a high volume low pressure extractor for such a machine.

 

[craigs]

I think ill start with the plan in a previous comment. Buy some sawn boards and use a combination of router/saw for flatness and build up some hand plane skills. Im sure its going to be a bit more rewarding than buyin PAR timber at 4x the cost.

I plan on buying a house year and ill make sure i have at least a garage i can insulate or decent size shed.