Tmber estimation

[Roxie]

I am struggling and I am sure there is help out there.
In an earlier thread I said I have a cot to make and I am now at the stage, having drawn it up and got approval from daughter, of ordering the timber, beech.
I have the wherewithal to size the wood (bandsaw, P/T) so sawn planks are not problem. The problem is "how many planks"? I have noted all the sizes of the various elements, now, do I just lay them out on a scaled plan of the board, say 2.4m x 175mm, or work out the cubic metres.?
Any help would be most welcome to a confused wood warrior.
John

 

[custard]

Steamed Beech or unsteamed? Doesn't matter which, just make sure you order all the same as there's a marked colour difference between the two.

It's normal practise to divide up your cutting list into different thicknesses and try and order accordingly, re-sawing or really heavy thicknessing to get down to a final thickness is wasteful.

If you visit the yard in person you'll end up with straighter, cleaner boards than if you order by phone or email. Remember, live knots and grain run out is "no fault" with Beech, so a yard won't hesitate to ship you those boards.

Unless you have a yard nearby that uses traditional through and through sawing you'll struggle to get quarter sawn boards. You might want quarter sawn because its more stable (that's what I'd want, Beech isn't a particularly stable timber so anything you can do to improve stability is a good thing) plus Beech has a very different quarter sawn face appearance, so as far as possible you'll want to present the same cut face on each side of your furniture so it's visually integrated. One way around this is to order very thick flat sawn boards, and then rip off quarter sawn boards from the edges with your band saw. So if you buy 100mm thick flat sawn boards you can get 100mm wide quarter sawn boards. Again, all a lot easier if you're picking your boards in person.

Beech is an efficient timber to use, with relatively low wastage. But it's cheap as chips so I'd assume 50-100% waste and order generously, any left overs will get used up in jigs or other projects.

Good luck!

 

[PAC1]

At this stage there are a couple of issues to think about. Cubic meters is a meaningless dimension when working out what you need and is only relevant to the final price. From your list you could work out the most efficient cutting list for planks, BUT
1. What size planks does the wood yard have
2. Waste and surplus
If you have a friendly wood yard take your list to them and they will help you through the choices. If not work out your efficient cutting from a plank and then add 50% to 100% to allow for 1 and 2 above

 

[tomatwark]

As someone who buys a lot of beech, I would certainly go for steam dried and not kiln dried, from experience it tends to move around less, also the colour being slightly reddy pink is nicer and is what most folks think is the colour of beech.

We buy a lot from Brooks Brothers and don't have a lot of problems.

 

[Roxie]

Thank you for helpful suggestions. The finished cot will painted white so steamed beech would, in my opinion, be wasteful.
Tomatwark. Where are Brooke Bros? I live in Bedfordshire.
John

 

[Fitzroy]

John,

Only thing I can say as a newbie is don't try to be too precise with the amount you order. Messing about trying to stretch the wood I have for the project I want has wasted hours and resulted in visible wood grain/pattern/etc that I would rather not have had on the finished piece. Custard's advice on wastage allowance is the key point for me.

F.

 

[Mr T]

Only thing I can say as a newbie is don't try to be too precise with the amount you order. Messing about trying to stretch the wood I have for the project I want has wasted hours and resulted in visible wood grain/pattern/etc that I would rather not have had on the finished piece. Custard's advice on wastage allowance is the key point for me.

I agree, this is a common problem for less experienced woodworkers, trying to squeeze a project out of a limited supply of wood leads to a piece that has no unity, no continuity of grain etc and frustration. Better to bite the bullet and buy with a generous allowance than scrat around trying to get a quart out of a point pot.

Although in your case John you can ignore this advice if you are painting it!

Chris

 

[MrDavidRoberts]

that's a pretty wasteful way to do it.. #-o
I try to plan everything out before I purchase the timber so I know already which piece of timber will be used for what part and only allow for max 10% wastage, 99% of the time I know I won't have the said problems described above If I select the timber myself and plan ahead.
Another bonus is, you don't have spare timber leftovers after you are finished which will just take up my valuable space for months until I find an use for the un-used stuff.
Ordering by m3 is really bad practice , there are so many variables... Just plan ahead and order by board sizes for the stuff you need, you can than convert it to m3 to check how much it's going to cost you however and how much space it's actually going to take up etc..

 

[PAC1]

David, you are very lucky if you can do that. Half the time I go with a plan it is frustrated because the timber yard does not have say 4x1 and only has 5x1 or 5.5x1. That is 30% waste straight away. You might find a hidden Knot, split or shake and waste another 20%. Then sometimes it just does not matter how you arrange the wood one piece just looks awful, the grain just does not work in that location- another 20% waste. If you are numpty like me every now and then you cut a piece wrong - that can be expensive 6ft of 6x3 Quarter Sawn Oak last time.

 

[woodbrains]

that's a pretty wasteful way to do it.. #-o
I try to plan everything out before I purchase the timber so I know already which piece of timber will be used for what part and only allow for max 10% wastage, 99% of the time I know I won't have the said problems described above If I select the timber myself and plan ahead.
Another bonus is, you don't have spare timber leftovers after you are finished which will just take up my valuable space for months until I find an use for the un-used stuff.
Ordering by m3 is really bad practice , there are so many variables... Just plan ahead and order by board sizes for the stuff you need, you can than convert it to m3 to check how much it's going to cost you however and how much space it's actually going to take up etc..

Hello,

When you make furniture that has some aesthetic quality and you are not just breaking stuff out from boards as they fall, then you cannot do it with minimal wastage. You have to consider the timber colour and grain. If you buy barely enough to do the job, you will without a doubt, end up with your project looking disharmonious. For instance, you select a nice riftsawn board for the legs, but it is only long enough for three, the other has big cathedral arches because that's the only bit left. You try to match a nice set of boards for a top and find some garish sapwood on edges that you have no choice but to join because you haven't another to select from. You want nice straight grain on some door rails, but you have wood with lots of run out. You use it because you have no choice and wonder why the door looks like a trapezium even though it is as square as can be. Wood is not the expense you might think compared to the time invested in a project, so buying more and getting the thing right is more important. The extra is not necessarily poor timber just not right for that project it will come in for something later.

Of course none of this matters for painted furniture, but I urge people not so skimp down to the wire when buying wood, I guarantee your work will benefit if you buy some excess and carefully select the timber for its aesthetics as you build. This often makes the difference between something that is just ordinary and something that sings. Conversely, a perfectly well constructed piece can look blooming awful if no care is taken when picking the wood.

Mike.

 

[custard]

that's a pretty wasteful way to do it.. #-o
I try to plan everything out before I purchase the timber so I know already which piece of timber will be used for what part and only allow for max 10% wastage, 99% of the time I know I won't have the said problems described above If I select the timber myself and plan ahead.

Compared to the hours you put into a project the cost of the wood is negligible, so be generous with your timber purchasing and then really spend time considering how you might break components out and joint them together for the most harmonious grain patterns. If you really want to make fine furniture then high wastage is inevitable. The good news is it's not really "waste", it gets used up on future projects, incorporated into jigs, given away to turners and knife makers who'll make use of even the smallest scraps, or just passed through your woodburner to keep you warm in the winter.

Only allowing 10% wastage means you inevitably get the kind of jarring grain clashes that are common with Oak Furniture Land horror furniture,

 

[meccarroll]

Your cot will not require any grain matching so you only need to work your purchase around the sizes of beech available to you (the sizes stocked from where you intend to purchase from).

When wood is cut down to size and converted from a plank form, it can sometimes twist, bow, spring and or cup. For this reason it is best to order oversized boards to allow for some of the aforementioned. In the case of beech, steamed is far less likely to move than un-steamed so although it may seem more expensive it can actually be less wasteful.

I would find out what sizes of beech I could obtain, then make my allowance for wastage and order the beech (being slightly generous). A few extra pounds spent on wood now will melt into insignificance when you see your daughter with her cot made by proud dad :wink:

Mark

 

[MattRoberts]

I think we need to bear in mind that grain matching, book matching and other subtle nuances of fine woodworking wood selection aren't always required for every project

 

[PAC1]

I think we need to bear in mind that grain matching, book matching and other subtle nuances of fine woodworking wood selection aren't always required for every project

Matt, true. But that does not tell the OP how much extra he should allow, nor how he should go about calculating the allowance.