Tinted wipe on Poly?

transatlantic · 29 Aug 2018

I'm tired of buying tinted varnishes/oils that I don't end up liking the colour of (I have many .. believe me)

So I am wondering if I can make my own to apply to Pine?

- Rustins Polyurethane Varnish
- White spirit
- Colron wood dye

It would be 60/40 mix of the varnish/white spirit, and then a dash of the dye (experimenting to find a colour I like)

I could of course dye the wood first and then apply the poly, but my thinking is that by having many coats of thinned poly with a very minimal amount of dye, I might get more uniform results (with less blotching).

I have experimented with sanding sealer before the dye, which works ok, but wanted to try something else

profchris · 29 Aug 2018

I've researched this quite a lot for instrument finishing, but my actual experience is only with clear or with black tinted shellac, so read with caution.

First, I think that what you need is dye, not stain. Here's a quote from another forum:

Technically, a dye is a solution of a colorant in a solvent such as water or alcohol. The colorant "particles" are of molecular size and can seep into the cellular structure of the wood and/or chemically bind to the wood. A stain is a finely ground pigment suspended in a binder and a solvent that penetrates pores and cracks and sits on the surface but whose particles are too large to enter the cellular structure. Unlike dyes, which bind directly with the wood, stains require a binder to "glue" the pigment particles to the wood. Stains can be regarded as highly thinned paint. Often, commercial stains contain dye also.

What it says on the tin might be meaningless, so check that what you have is dye rather than stain. Stain will give you a muddy finish.

Next, it needs to mix with your poly/white spirit blend. An alcohol-based dye should work, but water-soluble won't.

In practice, you could just make up a batch and see what you get, but if you're buying in and the dye/stain is incompatible you'll have wasted your money.

Finally (and this *is* experience talking), you have to seal with something clear before you apply the tinted coats. If not, you will get blotchiness as the wood absorbs the tinted finish unevenly. Sanding sealer might be best, or your untinted mixture might do.

Test on scrap is advice that I always regret not following!

But the principle of tinted finish is fine, used a lot for instruments.

Sgian Dubh · 29 Aug 2018

profchris":4pmmrlbz said:
What it says on the tin might be meaningless, so check that what you have is dye rather than stain. Stain will give you a muddy finish.

I disagree slightly because there's usually a good indication on the tin of stain or dye or in the 'How to use' instructions somewhere. Basically, if the instructions say something like stir (or shake) thoroughly prior to use and occasionally during use to mix all the constituents you're dealing with a stain. The idea is to ensure the pigment is spread evenly throughout the liquid rather than sitting as a congealed lump at the bottom of the can. Dyes don't need stirring.

I've long found it puzzling that on this eastern side of the Atlantic wood 'colourant' manufacturers seem to use the descriptors dye and stain interchangeably. To me, they've always been different wood colouring methods, and the Americans continue with the clear distinction between dye and stain, which does make life somewhat simpler.

As to the original question about adding dye to a wipe on finish, I suspect it might lead to a stripy or patchy end result - testing on a sacrificial sample would be the way to find out.

Personally, my preferred approach if I'd only got hand applied options available, would probably be to dye (or stain) the bare wood followed by quickly brushing on a light well thinned out first coat of clear thinned varnish, let dry, rub down lightly, then wipe on however many coats I wanted after that to get the build desired.

Quickly brushing on a first coat means you're not dragging either a brush or rag back and forth over the coloured up surface which itself could lead to streakiness or patches and, crucially, this quickly applied first coat seals the coloured up wood surface from subsequent coats of polish.

Having said all that I generally prefer some colouring up jobs using a spray gun followed up with a polish of some sort, ha, ha. Slainte.

transatlantic · 1 Sep 2018

Well - it didn't work

When mixing the dye with white spirit or meths (or straight with the poly) it just turns into blobs, like a lava lamp.

Guess I'll try something that specifically mentions it's spirit based

here is the dye I tested : https://www.colron.co.uk/products/wood- ... -wood-dye/