Timber - learning and costs

[Rhossydd]

When I first started I was so strapped for cash .....,

One thing to remember is that, luckily, not everyone is in that position. Advice offered doesn't have to start from an assumption of penury and can be based on would be 'best' regardless of cost.
Some woods are wonderful to turn and with those you can learn the basics swiftly and be more skilled to deal with the more challenging species and types.
Other timbers novices would be well advised to avoid until their skill levels are higher and they can cope with the challenges presented.

Similarly mounting ready made blanks is simple, easy and doesn't require the more specialist tools and skills needed for dealing with a lot of 'found' wood. That can come later.

Is a curious anomaly here that people will extol the need to buy good tools, but then don't extend that attitude to suggest that buying good wood also has value too.

 

[Lons]

Assuming he doesn't mean chipboard, why not?

How many 'kitchen worktop offcuts' aren't faced chipboard now ? It's worth bearing in mind that these forums are read by a lot of people (that don't contribute or read very widely) that might not understand why a chipboard kitchen worktop wouldn't be a good thing to learn to turn with if someone recommends it here.
Yes, some worktops are solid wood, but precious few. Those that are tend to be not very thick, so less useful. Most kitchen companies selling off these sorts of offcuts seem to sell them as suitable for cutting boards and price them accordingly, so no great bargain worth chasing.
As the OP was looking to move on from "pine scraps which are a bit skinny" it's not a hugely useful suggestion.

I suggest that you read my first post in which I stated wood worktops and I assume that anyone reading these posts with even a smidgen of experience and commonsense would not confuse laminated chipboard with hardwood.

As I own a company which fits a lot of kitchens, I assure you that solid hardwood tops are still quite common and even the kids who frequent Ikea will know that. If you don't believe me then google solid wood worktops and you'll find many suppliers on line apart from those on the high street.

Additionally, every top I've ever fitted has been around 40mm thick so I don't know where you get your information from and if you're trying to tell me that 40mm isn't thick enough to turn something useful, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about! You say " seem to sell them" - yes of course they do but not in enough quantities to use up all the offcuts.
As an aside, 150 x 150 x 40mm samples can be obtained free or for a small price to cover postage from many of those online companies, great for a small shallow bowl or a quantity of pen blanks.

I know as a matter of fact that kitchen companies throw away loads of hob, sink and offcuts in the skip and have aquired many such pieces in oak, walnut, beech, zebrawood, maple and wenge so my advice is IMO perfectly sound and reasonable.

cheers
Bob

EDIT: I aquired my first drill powered lathe when I was 12 or 13 and started with bits of pine and anything else I could find. Old furniture was not easy to come by in those days as people mended it which isn't the case in todays' society and why it's available from house clearances via auction rooms for peanuts.
I'm now 66 so have plenty of experience and haven't forgotten what it's like when starting out. In those days there were no forums, youtube or internet to help (or confuse :lol: )

 

[Rhossydd]

if you're trying to tell me that 40mm isn't thick enough to turn something useful, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about!

If you read the OP he's asking about 90mm x 90mm timber because he doesn't want "skinny" bits any more.

As I own a company which fits a lot of kitchens, I assure you that solid hardwood tops are still quite common

So how about bundling up a box of offcuts for the OP and offering them for the cost of shipping ?

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

One thing to remember is that, luckily, not everyone is in that position. Advice offered doesn't have to start from an assumption of penury and can be based on would be 'best' regardless of cost.

The only reason I factored cost in was because that was one of the questions asked. I'm looking at the question from the position of someone starting out. I do get what you are saying, but the number of mistakes I made when starting out would soon have made buying blanks financially non-viable. Take a £20 bowl blank and send it clattering all over the shop in bits through a bad catch, and it soon mounts up.
It may be wrong to assume a position of poverty, but I do think it is equally wrong to assume money is no object.

Anyhoo, it's all just personal opinion at the end of the day. We all know what they say about opinions.

 

[Lons]

if you're trying to tell me that 40mm isn't thick enough to turn something useful, with all due respect, you don't know what you're talking about!

If you read the OP he's asking about 90mm x 90mm timber because he doesn't want "skinny" bits any more.

As I own a company which fits a lot of kitchens, I assure you that solid hardwood tops are still quite common

So how about bundling up a box of offcuts for the OP and offering them for the cost of shipping ?

* Not quite true re 90 x 90 ! He doesn't say he wants that size just asked if it was worth £50 !

* What I do with my offcuts has got b***er all to do with you. I note you haven't offered anything except negative comment !
There's no point in incurring carriage costs when the OP can get the same locally FOC. If he wants to pm me, I am very happy to provide him with some wood however or give him some pointers

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about something and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who can't be bothered to read properly. I'll let the OP make up his own mind.

BTW here is something I very quickly knocked up for the missus last weekend out of some reclaimed ash that was 38mm thick the kind you described as "not very thick, so less useful". Very poor photo taken with my 'phone unfortunately but she's very happy with the result and it's certainly useful from her point of view.

cheers
Bob

 

[Rhossydd]

I note you haven't offered anything except negative comment !

Did you start reading the thread from the beginning ? If so you'll notice the constructive post I made on the 2nd and that the OP has chosen to take up my advice for buying some decent cheap blanks from HoW and thanked me for the advice.
I'm not involved with any woodworking on a professional basis, so haven't a free supply to offer anyone. If I was, I would.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who can't be bothered to read properly. I'll let the OP make up his own mind.

Maybe if you've read the above you'll reconsider that comment.

 

[Lons]

Maybe if you've read the above you'll reconsider that comment.

NOPE (hammer)

EDIT: I had read your post btw and in fact looked at the website which is indeed interesting however the OP ordered a starter pack which states "THESE ARE SMALL BLANKS , 2-4 INCH DIAMETER" which hardly supports your comment about larger sizes.
I fail to see how £27 plus postage is better value than timber FOC in any event though of course costs may not be a factor.

Anyway, I don't want to fall out with anyone as we're both entitled to our opinions and I guess the OP has had enough replies to his original question without us arguing about it and we clearly aren't going to agree so we'll just have to differ as I don't intend to let this develop further.

cheers
Bob

 

[Rhossydd]

I fail to see how £27 plus postage is better value than timber FOC

As they say there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Unless it's actually from your own garden, there will always be a cost. Travelling costs money and time is valuable in itself.
Some of the previous suggestions that need the likes of chain saws, band saws etc all have added costs, some substantial if you don't already have the kit already.

There's a good place for 'found' and reclaimed timber in woodwork, especially if budget is a major concern, but to dismiss buying decent, cheap well prepared timber to learn on is just ridiculous.

 

[Lons]

I fail to see how £27 plus postage is better value than timber FOC

As they say there's no such thing as a free lunch.
Unless it's actually from your own garden, there will always be a cost. Travelling costs money and time is valuable in itself.
Some of the previous suggestions that need the likes of chain saws, band saws etc all have added costs, some substantial if you don't already have the kit already.

There's a good place for 'found' and reclaimed timber in woodwork, especially if budget is a major concern, but to dismiss buying decent, cheap well prepared timber to learn on is just ridiculous.

I agree with what you've said above though it isn't realistic to cost time as a factor unless making special out of the way trips or doing it as your occupation. Everyone shops or has trips out at some stage and it's easy enough to take a few minutes out when passing potential sources so in fact I would definitely class anything from those in the truly "free lunch" category.

I actually didn't dismiss any timber at all so assume that comment wasn't aimed at me.

Why don't we just leave it as it stands Rhossydd and agree to differ. If we were in the pub I'd shake your hand on that and buy you a pint. :lol:

 

[Rhossydd]

though it isn't realistic to cost time as a factor

It may not be easy for many people to put a direct monetary value on their hours, but time IS valuable and needs to be considered.
I really haven't enough free time to do all the things I'd like to, I doubt I'm alone in that, so try to never waste time. I'd rather be in the workshop than trawling around begging for freebies, the modest cost of buying decent timber is good value to me.

As an example; last year I was given the free pickings of what was left of a fallen Walnut tree in a neighbour's garden. After the hours spent picking through the pile, chain sawing it into manageable chunks and refining the blanks with a band saw, I was left with hardly any good timber. Enough to make a keepsake for my neighbour, but what was left effectively cost me three times what I could have bought it for from a merchant once I factored in my time.
In the same amount of time as I spent trying to get workable timber from that 'offer', I went to a Westonbirt wood sale. I had an interesting and educational chat to the volunteers working there, bought some fantastic boards at a modest cost and generally had a good time in the process.
Lesson learnt ? I like poking around timber yards, buying boards and learning from experts more than trying to utilise what should be firewood.

Never undervalue time. You only get it once, use it wisely.

 

[Lons]

Never undervalue time. You only get it once, use it wisely.

I don't need your advice on how to organise my time, I use as I see fit, You're free to use yours how you wish, we all value the things we do in different ways.

I use machinery to do the hard work prior to finishing with hand tools for example, others don't, so what if I view that as a waste of time but it would be my time - not theirs I'm evaluating and completely wrong of me to condem it just because I don't agree.

I wonder how much your time has cost you during your participation in this argument, maybe it's not as short as you fear. :wink:
I now view this argument as a complete waste of my time, perhaps you don't, so post what you will - I won't respond again. :roll:

 

[moby]

no need to buy stuff bigbud. plentty of tree surgeons need to get rid of logs etc and have to pay for the privilege. Any time you pass one, pull over and have a quick chat, take a card, ask where their yard is.

My local surgeon takes a crate of lager for the lads once a month, I can roll up anytime and take what I want from the yard.
Sometimes I buy a pallet of laburnum, cherry or plum etc for £15 from a guy who is about 20mins drive.

Loads of it about. If you listen out for the sweet buzz of a chainsaw, the guys are usually very happy to give you some, stops them having to load and unload it!

Whereabouts in Manchester are you?

 

[moby]

just been reading back through the replies. Looks like the OP was put off after Page 1. looks like the bickering put him off.

:roll:

 

[Rhossydd]

Actually he got the advice he needed on page 1 and acted on it.

Hopefully he'll report back on what he's bought and how he's found it to turn.

 

[Bigbud78]

just been reading back through the replies. Looks like the OP was put off after Page 1. looks like the bickering put him off.

:roll:

Not at all I'm in Urmston fella, I'm going to contact a couple of tree surgeons when I get back from my Jollies. I'm in the midst of finishing a Wendy house for my little girl and trying to sort out the garage so I have more room then I want to get a little shelter to store any wood I can get.

Appreciate all the comments thank you, I was looking at the Oak locally and ultimately bought the beginner pack as yes I want to practice but would like to keep anything that actually turns out I've been looking at prepared blanks or straight regular lengths as I just don't have the time to be preparing blanks and I only have a TS with 55mm cutting depth currently.

 

[Rhossydd]

I'm going to contact a couple of tree surgeons when I get back from my Jollies.

Worth a try.
See if they'll rip any big logs through the centre to get a flat face to work from, it will make future mounting and preparation much easier. Also end seal* anything immediately you get it to prevent splitting, especially important in the summer months and with some species that will split almost as soon they're cut.
Michael O'Donnell's book Turning green wood will worth reading too. Library/club/Amazon

*PVA works well and dries clear enough to see through, old varnish is similarly effective. Paraffin wax is also often used, but can be a pain to use, also paint works, but leaves you blind to the timber.

 

[Dalboy]

*PVA works well and dries clear enough to see through, old varnish is similarly effective. Paraffin wax is also often used, but can be a pain to use, also paint works, but leaves you blind to the timber.

I use emulsion paint then wrap in news paper while it is still wet I agree that you can only see the two surfaces. But the main thing is whatever you choose to seal the wood get it done a quick as possible preferably the same day. If it is still in log form then just do the two ends until you get the chance to convert it.
I picked two pieces of ash (I cut one in half along the length) up at a show I went to just been cut from the log total cost £10 I was already there so no extra cast of fuel just some time converting it when I got home. The sizes of each one is about 3" thick the length can be judged by the shed door
Yes I am fortunate that I own an electric chainsaw which I paid the complete sum of £2 along with £10 for a new part. Before anyone says anything about repairing such a machine I was a plant mechanic before having to give up work.

 

[Rhossydd]

£10 for that lot ? what a bargain.
Care to share where you can pick up deals like that ? please

 

[Dalboy]

£10 for that lot ? what a bargain.
Care to share where you can pick up deals like that ? please

I go to steam rallies and there are various demonstrators and one of the cuts logs once done he places them on the ground and I just ask. At the next one I will be seeing him he says he will have some Walnut about the same size and again will only charge £5 a piece.

Look Here and yes that is one of my pieces being cut

 

[Rhossydd]

Look Here and yes that is one of my pieces being cut

I wonder what the risk assessment for that is ?

Thanks, will try and catch a few and see what I get