My timbers are rippling! I have a Fox thicknesser planer. This problem may be inherent in all machines of this calibre and something I'm overlooking but I've been in touch with the importers workshop at length and they're now as baffled as I am. The initial problem was (I thought) a pulley locking wedge that had become worn and was knocking the cutter block as it turned (belt driven), that sorted and having tightenebd down the beds (after 2 years weekly use) and slipped in some new blades the ripples are less 'patterned' but they're still there intermitantly. I've tested the cutter block in full swing and in turning it by hand and it's definatley solid. I've checked the bed and it's not moving either. The feed rollers are doing their job but are vertically sprung leaving the problem between the block and the bed. Could there be any other reason?
Thicknesser planer rippling trouble
- Thread starter Max7
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DaveL
Established Member
Hi Max7,
Welcome to the forum.
I don't have this machine but I would check that both knives are at the same level, you could just be cutting with one.
Welcome to the forum.
I don't have this machine but I would check that both knives are at the same level, you could just be cutting with one.
DaveL":7qmje8oy said:Hi Max7,
Welcome to the forum.
I don't have this machine but I would check that both knives are at the same level, you could just be cutting with one.
Thanks Dave, thing is the knives are bedded on springs in the block then held tight with a bolted wedge. Difficult to hold them down evenly, though I'm using a straight edge against the top bed which doesn't work exactly as I'm out by about 1/2 a mm of the 3 blades. Do you reckon that a 1/2mm disparity could be causing the ripples?
Max7 said:DaveL said:Hi Max7,
Welcome to the forum.
Then again Dave the ripples are about 1/2 mm deep!!! What's the point of these springs seating the knives? I might just cut some seats and take the dam things out. Thanks for the welcome mate. I've been woodworking for 12 years professionally and I must admit I've no training and also no inherent knowledge of what it takes to make a good thicknesser. I'm about to spend some on a decent machine though. I work with 9" pine and Douglas Fir. Do you have any suggestions?
ProShop
Established Member
This machine used to come with a blade setting tool which sat on the cutter block and the spring loaded knives ...er.....sprung to the underside of the setting tool which accurately set the knives. Takes about 5 mins with the tool.
you can buy various makes of setting tools which will do the job.
you can buy various makes of setting tools which will do the job.
ProShop":p00oer0p said:
OK thanks that's a lead. Any idea where I might get the setting tool? I've tried Fox but they reckon their knives seat at the bottom of the block without springs which is completely making me think that I've bought a machine that was made for another frikin planet!
jonny boy
Established Member
Most setting gauges are virtually all the same, just different in the diameter of cutter block and how much they make the knives protrude. If you contact axminster and ask them if they can supply a replacement one for their 10 inch P/T, i'm almost certain it will work on yours as well.
cheers,
jonathan.
cheers,
jonathan.
ProShop
Established Member
jonny boy
Established Member
If all three knives aren't set exactly the same, the cutter which sticks out the most will be the only one doing any cutting and will certainly cause rippling, you must have all the knives set the same for an efficient and smooth cutting action.
jon.
jon.
If you can't get a setting gauge to push the blades down against the springs (must be at TDC of the cutting arc), a piece of plate glass will do the job, BUT....this setting mode is:
1/ only really suitable for planers with an adjustable outfeed table, as the setting proceedure puts blades level with the outfeed, not a few thou over, as normally required.
2/ the blades will squirm as you tighten tham down, and put themselves out of adjustment, like as not. This type of setting gauge is really only for initial positioning, followed with either
A/ a dial gauge or B/ the "move a stick 3mm" method. IMHO push down setting gauge not worth spending any money on - if hard up use stick method!
Whichever method you use, knives should be within a couple of thou or so of each other, easiest done with a dial gauge, stick is a bit slower but still accurate.
1/ only really suitable for planers with an adjustable outfeed table, as the setting proceedure puts blades level with the outfeed, not a few thou over, as normally required.
2/ the blades will squirm as you tighten tham down, and put themselves out of adjustment, like as not. This type of setting gauge is really only for initial positioning, followed with either
A/ a dial gauge or B/ the "move a stick 3mm" method. IMHO push down setting gauge not worth spending any money on - if hard up use stick method!
Whichever method you use, knives should be within a couple of thou or so of each other, easiest done with a dial gauge, stick is a bit slower but still accurate.
Thanks for the advice, I've sent off for a jig made for a clone machine which should arrive tomorrow. It's funny though because I've had the knives out and back in before now for sharpening and not had this trouble in resetting them. What's also puzzling is that the ripples aren't continuous, they're intermittent. I've stripped the beds down etc and given it a good service. Fingers crossed.
Max7":1565n68l said:
This can show up when surfacing due to inconsistant feed speed, the faster you feed the further apart each cut will be and the more noticable the rippling effect. In thicknessing mode the first thing I would do is wax the table in case it's grabbing a bit and slowing the feed down occasionally.
Incidentally, I have seen rippling like this even when the baldes are set perfectly, as a result of one blade being sharper than the other 2.
I agree Mark, it's the same with any cutting machine, when I'm impatient with my spindle it replies with the same poor finish! I've been using silica spray on the thicknesser bed, it wipes off at each pass so leaving it sticking at times especially when there's a lot of pitch in the timber. I haven't tried wax yet. But I will. Thanks
les chicken
Established Member
Max
I do not have your machine mine is an electro beckam but.
Not wishing to to teach my granny to suck eggs I would suggest you check.
Make sure the rollers are free from resin causing an intermittent feed.
Use wax or dw40 as a last resort to make sure the timber slides evenly through the bed.
Make sure you are not planning against the grain.
The dust extract is clearing the chippings from the cutters.
I have had the situation when the chippings were blocking the extract the result was like corrugated sheeting.
Hope this might be of some help.
Les
I do not have your machine mine is an electro beckam but.
Not wishing to to teach my granny to suck eggs I would suggest you check.
Make sure the rollers are free from resin causing an intermittent feed.
Use wax or dw40 as a last resort to make sure the timber slides evenly through the bed.
Make sure you are not planning against the grain.
The dust extract is clearing the chippings from the cutters.
I have had the situation when the chippings were blocking the extract the result was like corrugated sheeting.
Hope this might be of some help.
Les
OPJ
Established Member
I have the Axminster AW106PT machine (I'm assuming you have the identical Fox 10"x7" P-T). I'm assuming you're only feeding one length of timber in to the machine at a time?
I discovered, earlier today, that if I feed a second piece of timber through after putting the first one in, with both on the same side of the machine, there's a chance the rollers may not grab the second workpiece. It'll stutter it's way along the bed until - WHOOSH! - the blades catch it just right and I see it land almost three-feet away! This did leave some obvious rippling as well.
You're probably only feeding them in one-at-a-time anyway! :roll: But, if you are in a hurry, I think you should try and space them out more across the width of the bed. This also helps reduce uneven wear on the knives.
I discovered, earlier today, that if I feed a second piece of timber through after putting the first one in, with both on the same side of the machine, there's a chance the rollers may not grab the second workpiece. It'll stutter it's way along the bed until - WHOOSH! - the blades catch it just right and I see it land almost three-feet away!
This did leave some obvious rippling as well.You're probably only feeding them in one-at-a-time anyway! :roll: But, if you are in a hurry, I think you should try and space them out more across the width of the bed. This also helps reduce uneven wear on the knives.
Does it matter on 3 knife block :?:
Sawn boards splinter both up and down. Long knots shove out both ways.
When brought right down a near finished a board feathers up away from the surface and this gives a clue to which way the grain's running. I'd welcome your advice.
Sawn boards splinter both up and down. Long knots shove out both ways.
When brought right down a near finished a board feathers up away from the surface and this gives a clue to which way the grain's running. I'd welcome your advice.
dicktimber
Established Member
One of the main reasons you get ripples is due to resin pick up, and because you are working with softwood some regular cleaning is needed.
The main culprit is usually the pick up rollers, which tend to slip when coated with resin.
Buy a wire brush...the thin ones you can de scale a barbie with...and some solvent. The rollers if metal will have segregations milled into them along the length. If your machine has an engage and idle drive handle you can use this to index the rollers.
I would also re set the blades, but use a piece of flat planed wood rather than glass. The blade needs to just pick up the wood and index it 1 or 2 mm forward. mMark the wood just as the blade picks it up, and measure how far it re positions it. Set all the blade the same.
Mike
The main culprit is usually the pick up rollers, which tend to slip when coated with resin.
Buy a wire brush...the thin ones you can de scale a barbie with...and some solvent. The rollers if metal will have segregations milled into them along the length. If your machine has an engage and idle drive handle you can use this to index the rollers.
I would also re set the blades, but use a piece of flat planed wood rather than glass. The blade needs to just pick up the wood and index it 1 or 2 mm forward. mMark the wood just as the blade picks it up, and measure how far it re positions it. Set all the blade the same.
Mike
dicktimber":3py6dzi4 said:
Thanks Mike, and all who have given me suggestions on how to resolve the problem. All are relevant, from knife setting to resin and as in my case the knife block being out of kilter. I also found that my machine, upon dismantling it has feed rollers that are taught, being driven, on one side of the machine and sprung on the other to allow the timber under the block. The feed in roller had shot its bolt completely though was working and the feed out roller was too loose to keep the timber from vibrating under the knives. This, along with the block knocking was causing the ripples. A lesson in preventative maintenance here for me. I consider this roller set up to be unreliable and am wondering what variations in design make more sense, however I will still be using this machine for sawn timber but I'm buying a Sheppach HMS 5600 for finer finishing as it had such a good review. I'll have them working side by side. As I'm turning out a commercial product I can't risk a mediocre or unreliable finish that I need to belt down and possibly distort. Thanks to everyone again. Hope I didn't sound too cranky :x back there but I'm in the middle of a job.
Max
