Thickness planer

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Soulmiester

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Evening gents.
OK so I'm just a hobbyist wood worker but I'd like to be able to use more rough sawn timber (cost) so I know I will need a thicknesser possibly a jointer/Thicknesser.
I've been looking at some of the lower end stuff like the titan and Clarke but because I don't make any money from my hobby the cost of a Planer will never really be absorbed. So my question is, do they do the job? I've seen 6,8 and 10inch versions of the above names but I don't want to shell out of there's no point. I have a jig for my table saw which gives me near enough perfect edges so the jointer side would just be a bonus.
I'm not bothered if it's second hand, just as long as it does the job I need from it.
Thanks for reading
Any advice would be welcomed
Lee.
 
You seem to be getting the functions of the machine a little mixed up. A planer/ thicknesser ( only the Americans use the term jointer ) will plane the face and the edge of the board before thicknessing it to the desired width. A P/T machine is the backbone of any workshop and allows you to save hours of backbreaking hand planing so that's the return for your money. In practice I think you will find any planer less than 10" wide will be limiting to use. Surprisingly hardwoods are sold even wider than softwoods so a 10 or 12 inch planer will save you cutting wide boards down to a smaller size.
Remember to budget for a chip extractor as well. :giggle:
 
You seem to be getting the functions of the machine a little mixed up. A planer/ thicknesser ( only the Americans use the term jointer ) will plane the face and the edge of the board before thicknessing it to the desired width. A P/T machine is the backbone of any workshop and allows you to save hours of backbreaking hand planing so that's the return for your money. In practice I think you will find any planer less than 10" wide will be limiting to use. Surprisingly hardwoods are sold even wider than softwoods so a 10 or 12 inch planer will save you cutting wide boards down to a smaller size.
Remember to budget for a chip extractor as well. :giggle:
Yer, I spent a few years in Chicago so still carry a bit of the slang, I'm fully aware of the uses of P/T, I have one of the best chipper extractors on the market, its called a brush lol. I have a relatively decent dust extractor but I just don't have the room to fit in a full on chipper separation unit.
But as per my post, do you have any advice on whether they will do a job or not? I don't and havnt really done anything that's needed a wide board and if I did, I'd probably hand plane it.
Thanks.
 
As you probably realise there is a vast choice of PT's on the market. This market exists because woodworkers of all descriptions find they do the job they're intended for. They all have particular characteristics, including cost, so the task is to find one that meets your requirements and falls within your budget.
If you want some advice from the forum you'll have to give us a few details about your requirements and some indication of space and funds available.
Brian
 
As you probably realise there is a vast choice of PT's on the market. This market exists because woodworkers of all descriptions find they do the job they're intended for. They all have particular characteristics, including cost, so the task is to find one that meets your requirements and falls within your budget.
If you want some advice from the forum you'll have to give us a few details about your requirements and some indication of space and funds available.
Brian
I have a 14ft x 8ft room in my cellar, 7ft high.

I have a 7x3 workbench with my tablesaw built in on one side of the 14ft side, on the other side I have a 2ft x 8ft cross cut Station that has my cross cut in the middle, pillar drill on one end and I plan to put my (new to me) 1/2" blade cast band saw. On 1 of the 8ft sides I have a sheet storage bin and above that I have shelves of 4 x2 RS and 6x2 live Edge.
On the other 8 ft side I have a 210L drum with my vacuum hooked up to it going to various points in the room, in the space that's left I want to put a P/T next to my disc sander.
I have a ready supply of 6x2 live Edge soft wood and soft maple and have done for a long time so pretty much everything I want to make and have made has been with that, I don't really have the need to work with hard woods as most everything I build is for the grandkids. Next project is a 3 way bunk bed system so all my 3 grandkids have a bed and can all stay over together.
Affordability is as cheap as possible but able to do the job.

I hope that's enough information to gain some advice. Anything else please let me know.
Kind regards
Lee
 
Hi Lee,

What is the max length of boards you envisage jointing/planing?

And the max width?

My advice would be to size up to allow for future projects. 10” (~250mm) wide planing tables are common on decent floorstanding machines. Machines with larger 12” (~300) or even 16” tables are available but tend to more industrial.

Smaller PTs with 6” (~150mm) or 8” (~200mm) can also be found but tend to be benchtop models. These are hobby machines with short tables that won’t cope well with long/heavy boards. They have noisy universal motors. Build quality may not be great.

Can you also give us an idea of the max budget so we know where the price threshold is?
 
Hi Lee,

What is the max length of boards you envisage jointing/planing?

And the max width?

My advice would be to size up to allow for future projects. 10” (~250mm) wide planing tables are common on decent floorstanding machines. Machines with larger 12” (~300) or even 16” tables are available but tend to more industrial.

Smaller PTs with 6” (~150mm) or 8” (~200mm) can also be found but tend to be benchtop models. These are hobby machines with short tables that won’t cope well with long/heavy boards. They have noisy universal motors. Build quality may not be great.

Can you also give us an idea of the max budget so we know where the price threshold is?
Hi, I'd say probably no more than say 250/300 max. What I've done in the past is cut the boards to Aprox length then planed it out. I'd say the next project which is the triple bunk beds is going to be the longest boards I've had to deal with. I have 12ft lengths of live Edge at 8,1/4 W @ 3 and 3/4, that's what I'd like to use for the bunk beds. I can square the boards up with my TS jig but it's a lot of hand planing that lol.
I tend to build things for the grandkids like tree houses, outdoor play houses, I've done seesaws and sand boxes 4ft toyboxes that kind of stuff, I've got another 2 grandkids on the way and would like to do as much as I can for them while I still can. I'm 52 and had to retire from work due to ill health.
 
You can do a lot with a 10" planer thicknesser. If you're on your own doing timber longer than about 10 foot will usually get a bit of snipe on the end, if there's two of you you can do longer with ease. You will need a chip collector, if you don't use one the chips won't clear and it will mark the face you're trying to thickness. I have just sold an Electra Beckum 10" pt in ok condition for £300 which is a reasonable machine. Sheppach , DeWalt and metabo do very similar ones that seem to go second hand at similar price. You can pay 5 to 10 times that for a better machine but it won't be 5 x better.
 
It sounds as though a PT would be really useful for the type of things you are making and the materials you're using. With the space available you're going to struggle with the longer lengths. I would suggest a table top machine mounted on a castored frame that can be wheeled out into the central space.
Your budget is very tight but a top-end s/h machine from the likes of Record Power, Metabo, Kity or Electro-Beckum is possible. Look for 260 in the machine name. An E-B went on ebay recently for £250 and one was offered here on the forum for £200 (a real bargain). I bought a Metabo recently for £390 which I considered to be a fair price but at the upper end.
Brian
 
Hi, I'd say probably no more than say 250/300 max. What I've done in the past is cut the boards to Aprox length then planed it out. I'd say the next project which is the triple bunk beds is going to be the longest boards I've had to deal with. I have 12ft lengths of live Edge at 8,1/4 W @ 3 and 3/4, that's what I'd like to use for the bunk beds. I can square the boards up with my TS jig but it's a lot of hand planing that lol.
I tend to build things for the grandkids like tree houses, outdoor play houses, I've done seesaws and sand boxes 4ft toyboxes that kind of stuff, I've got another 2 grandkids on the way and would like to do as much as I can for them while I still can. I'm 52 and had to retire from work due to ill health.

Cutting to length (leaving a bit of excess for final squaring up) is definitely the way to go. So those ~3.6m (12 ft; sorry I work in metric) boards will be cut down to what length prior to planing? As a rule, most furniture components don’t exceed ~2.5m in my experience. There are probably exceptions but not common. A king size bed frame will likely be less than 2.5m long. A wardrobe probably won’t be much more than ~2m tall, etc.

I have a PT with 310mm wide tables. Machines of this size tend to have a combined length of table (infeed + outfeed) in the range of 1300mm - 1500mm. Meaning that each table is 650 to 750mm long.

You will read general ballpark rules for calculating max board length relative to table length that say 2 x length of the infeed table or 1.5 x combined length of both tables. So for a machine with 1400mm long tables (700 infeed + 700 outfeed) this would give you a max board length of 1400mm - 2100mm. My machine has 1400mm tables and to be honest I think much beyond ~2000mm board length is pushing it, especially in the case of boards that have significant bow (and twist). You need skill to keep the board referencing properly on the infeed as you start the cut and referencing properly on the outfeed table as you finish the cut. The more overhang you have the harder this becomes.

You can add extension tables by drilling holes at the ends of the infeed and outfeed tables and bolting on angle iron with a piece of ply or MDF attached which is carefully leveled with the table surface. These need simple legs to stop them drooping under weight. Doing this will increase the capacity by giving you a longer flat surface to reference off at both ends of the cut. Roller stands are an alternative but these are difficult to level accurately with the tables, especially where the floor is uneven / not flat. They tend also not to be very stable, being easily knocked out of position. Extension tables are a much better bet. Some manufacturers e.g. Felder / Hammer sell proprietary extensions that fit their machines but a DIY mod isn’t difficult if you are careful.

Bear in mind that smaller machines will tend to have shorter tables. So for instance most ~250mm wide PTs have tables that are a combined length of ~1000mm to ~1200mm long. Smaller benchtop models will be shorter still. Smaller benchtop models are also inherently less stable since they don’t weigh much and have a relatively small footprint, hence are more likely to tip if the boards are too long/heavy.

Before you choose a model you need to very clear about the max length of material you plan to work with.

If you are planning on planing material for beds and that may reach lengths of 2000mm then you really want a robust floorstanding machine with long tables and extensions to give you the extra reference surface needed for stability / security.

EDIT: I did a bit of searching online and, in fact, it seems the most common advice is that boards should not exceed 2 x the total table length of the surface planer (jointer). So in my case this would mean boards not exceeding 2800mm. I have to say that I'm surprised by this as my experience is that supporting the board at the beginning and end of the cut when there is a very substantial overhang is tricky and often leads to poor results. Especially if the boards are wide and/or deep and therefore particularly heavy (I work with dense tropical timbers). If the board is bowed then this compounds the issue. I've tried roller stands and they don't do a great job (my workshop floor is not very flat). Hence my recommendation for considering table extensions to add additional support. Perhaps there are techniques for dealing with this problem that I haven't considered. Any advice would be appreciated. I have a large bed frame to make soon using reclaimed Ipê (ebene verte as its known locally here). Given the weight of this timber I have some concerns about how best to manage the milling process. I work alone. Thanks.
 
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Can't say I agree with Bojam. You can get good results with care on standard length tables. There's a bit of operator skills in getting the best from a planer .
 
Can't say I agree with Bojam. You can get good results with care on standard length tables. There's a bit of operator skills in getting the best from a planer .
I must be doing something wrong then. I’ve struggled with heavy ~2m long (200mm+ wide) boards where only ~1/3 of the board is referencing the table at the start and the end of the cut. The problem is definitely compounded when there is bow in the board meaning the end of the board is hanging below the level of table when starting the cut.

My F-I-L has added extensions to his tables and this seems to work well. I’ve seen other people mod their machines like this and I’ve been contemplating doing the same.

How do you manage long lengths and relatively short tables @Jones? Genuine question.
 
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Cutting to length (leaving a bit of excess for final squaring up) is definitely the way to go. So those ~3.6m (12 ft; sorry I work in metric) boards will be cut down to what length prior to planing? As a rule, most furniture components don’t exceed ~2.5m in my experience. There are probably exceptions but not common. A king size bed frame will likely be less than 2.5m long. A wardrobe probably won’t be much more than ~2m tall, etc.

I have a PT with 310mm wide tables. Machines of this size tend to have a combined length of table (infeed + outfeed) in the range of 1300mm - 1500mm. Meaning that each table is 650 to 750mm long.

You will read general ballpark rules for calculating max board length relative to table length that say 2 x length of the infeed table or 1.5 x combined length of both tables. So for a machine with 1400mm long tables (700 infeed + 700 outfeed) this would give you a max board length of 1400mm - 2100mm. My machine has 1400mm tables and to be honest I think much beyond ~1600mm board length is pushing it, especially in the case of boards that have significant bow (and twist). You need skill to keep the board referencing properly on the infeed as you start the cut and referencing properly on the outfeed table as you finish the cut. The more overhang you have the harder this becomes.

You can add extension tables by drilling holes at the ends of the infeed and outfeed tables and bolting on angle iron with a piece of ply or MDF attached which is carefully leveled with the table surface. These need simple legs to stop them drooping under weight. Doing this will increase the capacity by giving you a longer flat surface to reference off at both ends of the cut. Roller stands are an alternative but these are difficult to level accurately with the tables, especially where the floor is uneven / not flat. They tend also not to be very stable, being easily knocked out of position. Extension tables are a much better bet. Some manufacturers e.g. Felder / Hammer sell proprietary extensions that fit their machines but a DIY mod isn’t difficult if you are careful.

Bear in mind that smaller machines will tend to have shorter tables. So for instance most ~250mm wide PTs have tables that are a combined length of ~1000mm to ~1200mm long. Smaller benchtop models will be shorter still. Smaller benchtop models are also inherently less stable since they don’t weigh much and have a relatively small footprint, hence are more likely to tip if the boards are too long/heavy.

Before you choose a model you need to very clear about the max length of material you plan to work with.

If you are planning on planing material for beds and that may reach lengths of 2000mm then you really want a robust floorstanding machine with long tables and extensions to give you the extra reference surface needed for stability / security.
Now that's advice.
Thank you.
Looks like I may have to stick with my hand planes lol.
300+ for the P/T and 300 odd for a chip separator, that's just way way out of my budget, I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money.
Hand. Planes it is.
Thank you kind sir.
 
Why not take a look at the lower end PT's on you tube ?. Theres plenty of workers working out of small sheds who dont have room for a big wide surfacer or thicknesser. And they appear to get on well enough.
I've a record power PT260 in a room about 11'x11' and while its quite large, its on wheels and can be pulled off the wall into the middle of the room, then stored away after.
I think much of the time you'll be cleaning up edges, or taking wide rough boards, dimensioning them on a saw, then in component form processing them from there. Really a case of planning rather than trying to surface a big long board then splitting it down etc etc.

Like many here I've used pro kit, scm minimax ,wide thicknessers etc and in the pro environment thats fine, but small scale in the house or shed, you can get on fine with smaller machines.

In my last workshop, we had a 18"(or maybe 20", i forget) wide scm surfacer and a 15" thicknesser and took 10-12' oak, black walnut etc boards and just fired them straight through the thicknesser first, then sawn to size, then edged. The only time we really used the surfacer first was making doors, where the stiles needed to be perfectly flat. Everything else, making large bookcases it was thicknesser first, then do the edges on the surfacer for gluing the long panels up.

Now while it wont do every job, it will do most, especially things like cleaning up edges for glues up sections

I don't make any money from my hobby the cost of a Planer will never really be absorbed
Think of that in terms of frustration or time, as its those issues that its making the savings on.
 
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Now that's advice.
Thank you.
Looks like I may have to stick with my hand planes lol.
300+ for the P/T and 300 odd for a chip separator, that's just way way out of my budget, I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money.
Hand. Planes it is.
Thank you kind sir.

Keep an eye out of the s/h market. Perhaps a decent Electra Beckum / Metabo PT (the Metabo model is HC260C) might come up at a reasonable price. If you can pick up one in good condition for ~£300 then it's a great price for a solid workhorse. First hand here (where prices are substantially elevated) you would pay ~£1500 for the Metabo HC260. I'm sure you can pick up a s/h chip extractor for much less than £300 if you're willing to wait for a deal to come along. This model of PT have planing tables of 1050mm in total. If it is possible to adequately support the board at both ends (when starting and ending the cuts) then you should - as others have suggested above - be able to manage board lengths of ~2m which I guess will be enough for your bunk bed build.

Alternatively, consider hand planing one face and one edge flat. And then invest in a benchtop thicknesser (not combined planer/thicknesser) to square the opposite face and get to the desired thickness. Rip the opposite edge with your table saw jig. Benchtop thicknessers are generally much cheaper. The only issue here is that the bed of a benchtop thicknesser is not very long and the machines don't weigh so much (~25-30kg compared to the ~70kg for the Metabo HC260C). So with long boards there is a tendency to tip. You'll need to bolt the machine down to a worktop or cart (better since it's mobile) and you'll definitely benefit from having a second person on hand to help feed or support long boards. You can also build a longer table out of plywood or melamine that sits inside the machine (on top of the existing bed) and extends further out on both sides. You'll find examples of this kind of build on Youtube and in woodworking magazines. You lose a little off the max depth of stock that can be fed through the machine but gain greater stability for longer stock. This can be integrated into the cart you build so the auxilliary table is itself properly supported. And it can be made removable for those instances where you need to maximise depth of the cut.
 
I think much of the time you'll be cleaning up edges, or taking wide rough boards, dimensioning them on a saw, then in component form processing them from there. Really a case of planning rather than trying to surface a big long board then splitting it down etc etc.
I totally agree. This is true the vast majority of time. Most furniture builds, as well as other small decorative stuff (frames, boxes, etc.), require relatively small components. Cut the boards up first to get the approximate sized parts required and then mill them. Not only does this make sense when working with smaller machines with limited capacities, it is also good practice generally as the smaller the peices the flatter they will tend to be. By shortening and narrowing a board (by cutting it up) you are likely removing the worst of any bow or cup present. So less milling required and more efficient use of material.

I think for the size your in something like this would be fine. £270
https://www.rutlands.com/sp+more-pl...MI9PP00cev_QIVNxkGAB0HUAOgEAQYBCABEgIN7fD_BwEIts not a lot more than the titan or clarke, but probably better built.
But with a total "jointer" table length of just 735mm, I don't think this machine will allow you to safely or accurately joint (surface plane) boards of more than 1.5m max. I'd be surprised if you could even do that. The infeed table is just ~360mm long and it's that you are trying to reference a 1.5m long board against as you start the cut. And the reverse as it exits the cutter against the outfeed table. But then I've never used a small benchtop model like this so I might be wrong. Even if it could be used to plane boards up to 1.5m long, will that be enough for the builds - like the bunk beds - that you have in mind? Perhaps for smaller projects it would be fine. For the money, I'd definitely keep my eyes open for a s/h Metabo HC260C or equivalent.
 
I have a cheap P/T, the cheapest I could get as, like you, I do not make money from my work - but I think I save a great deal.

To begin with it worked really well, but over the 8 years it's been use I have had to keep it working well. The weakness is the fence - but I'm happy again after making some minor changes. I'm sure a more expensive machine would be far better - but my budget won't go any further and my "workshop" is too small for anything larger, everything has to be portable enough to shift the room about to take into account my present project. Oh, I have a dust extractor which has to cope with whatever comes it's way and it easily copes with the P/T planings.
It has the typical short bed - but I have been able to plane 2m lengths, I have a couple of roller stands that are invaluable for this and my saw (also a cheapo).
 
I have a cheap P/T, the cheapest I could get as, like you, I do not make money from my work - but I think I save a great deal.

To begin with it worked really well, but over the 8 years it's been use I have had to keep it working well. The weakness is the fence - but I'm happy again after making some minor changes. I'm sure a more expensive machine would be far better - but my budget won't go any further and my "workshop" is too small for anything larger, everything has to be portable enough to shift the room about to take into account my present project. Oh, I have a dust extractor which has to cope with whatever comes it's way and it easily copes with the P/T planings.
It has the typical short bed - but I have been able to plane 2m lengths, I have a couple of roller stands that are invaluable for this and my saw (also a cheapo).
May I ask what P/T your using and what type of extraction please. I've pretty much been totally put off even thinking about getting one now. Feel like I'm punching above my weight. Thanks.
 
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