The ultimate sharpening thread - unmoderated.

[MikeG.]

I put an edge on them using glass and sandpaper

How do you hold the sandpaper down Mike? I was using sandpaper to grind out a large chip on a second-hand chisel at the weekend and I used a piece from a roll of sandpaper clamped and stuck down (with pritt stick!) which is what I have done when flattening planes. I think there must be an easier way (or perhaps I am doing it wrong!)

Well for a long time I used spray adhesive, but it was such a faff getting it all off when the paper needed changing that I started using the paper loose, just tucked under the far edge of the glass. It doesn't need to be glass, BTW. A piece of thick MDF does the job beautifully. Now I generally spray a bit of WD40 at the glass and the paper sticks to that pretty well.

 

[Jacob]

......
Nabs I'm not going near this thread but I sometimes use wet and dry especially for restoring an iron from terrible. I have some ultex stones for normal. I use white spirit. I find it will hold w and d on the glass shelf I robbed out my kitchen cupboard and is what I have as float glass. Works alright in my book. But then again I have no idea what I'm doing. Might be worth a go mate.

Yep. Works really well with paper backed paper (not cloth) flooded and very wet. Lies very flat and stays down due to capillary action etc.
Helps if stored between boards to keep flat in between uses.

 

[MikeG.]

As an aside, I don't restrict myself to wet 'n dry. I'll use ordinary 100 grit sandpaper instead of grinding, sometimes.

 

[Droogs]

All the above are very amusing, but all joking aside.

Firstly, as we all know you have to sacrafice a virgin .......

 

[profchris]

Firstly, as we all know you have to sacrafice a virgin .......

Thin on the ground round here.

So I just leave my chisels under a pyramid overnight. A big one, obviously.

 

[nabs]

thanks for the tips on sticking down sandpaper - tbh I have tried various ways of sticking down wet and dry but it always tears or slips after a short while.

Having said that I now only use ordinary 80 grit sandpaper on a roll, which is much more robust, but since I am normally giving it some welly (I use it for grinding damaged edges, which it does very quickly) it still rides up now and then. Probably there are some virgin/pyramid related details I am missing!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Firstly, as we all know you have to sacrafice a virgin .......

Thin on the ground round here.

So I just leave my chisels under a pyramid overnight. A big one, obviously.

Reminds me of the old, old joke - when the coming of the messiah was being though out, God decided it to be in Camborne - but then he realised he wouldn't be able to find a virgin or three wise men.

 

[Jacob]

thanks for the tips on sticking down sandpaper - tbh I have tried various ways of sticking down wet and dry but it always tears or slips after a short while.

Having said that I now only use ordinary 80 grit sandpaper on a roll, which is much more robust, but since I am normally giving it some welly (I use it for grinding damaged edges, which it does very quickly) it still rides up now and then. Probably there are some virgin/pyramid related details I am missing!

Probably the magic details you are missing:
Stuck down the wet way (which I've described hundreds of times :roll: ) works if the wet n dry is; paper not cloth backed, flat, well soaked, on a smooth impermeable surface (glass, granite, steel etc NOT mdf), pressed down flat before you start to use it, is kept wet.
In use flattening a plane sole is no prob, but a blade edge can dig in. This is avoided by only touching the edge gently and briefly but putting all your effort into the rest of the bevel - dipping the blade for a rounded bevel. The rounded bevel wont dig in. A flat bevel might, even with a jig.
I realise that the very term 'rounded bevel' sends people off in fits, but I don't care, it works. :lol:
If edges are a prob with paper then why not use an oil stone instead? The coarse side typically cuts very fast. It makes more sense to reserve the wet paper method for sole flattening only.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What's the point in working to remove a bevel on an oilstone/a waterstone/a diamond plate? If you don't possess a grindstone fine - but that's why most of us grind the tools, 'cos it's easier and quicker.

 

[Jacob]

What's the point in working to remove a bevel on an oilstone/a waterstone/a diamond plate? If you don't possess a grindstone fine - but that's why most of us grind the tools, 'cos it's easier and quicker.

Agree. It's just for when you are away from the grindstone (or pro-edge, belt sander etc) and desperate.
Though come to think - a 6" grinder makes a horrible job of it, plus risk of overheating, so doing it by hand has some advantages.

 

[nabs]

If edges are a prob with paper then why not use an oil stone instead?

I would not normally use sandpaper but I recently bought 2 old chisels one of which had an entire corner broken off (lord knows how) and the other was badly chipped, and under these circumstances I thought having a big surface area to work on is an advantage.

Having said that it still took ages - thus it was a bit embarrassing to remember the next day that I actually bought a grinder last year which, having temporarily suspended my tool fiddling escapades to do other things, I had put in a box in the garage and forgotten about. I did the other chisel earlier today and needless it was much quicker to do, which meant I had time to replace the horn on my saw - see pic for evidence!

little chance of overheating with this low tech grinder, unless you are extremely energetic. I won't bother with it for normal sharpening mind you as I am happy with stones (rounded bevel and all!).

Here it is - not bad for 15 quid!

a lot better than the one I had before, which broke after about 15 minutes. I trust you approve Phil!

 

[bugbear]

So far in my woodworking journey I have achieved good edge using synthetic oilstones, arkansas, washita, charnley forest, coticule, SiC paper, japanese waterstones and diamond stones.

I have used around 5-7 different honing guides (I've never dared count), and several freehand techniques.

I have used single and double bevel approaches.

All of this seemed to work well.

At the moment I use a sequence of natural oil stones with a jig for woodwork tools, and watestones with a visual angle guide for kitchen knives.

<compulsory>All my techniques are better than other people's techniques, and are quick and easy.</compulsory>

BugBear

 

[Jacob]

If edges are a prob with paper then why not use an oil stone instead?

I would not normally use sandpaper but I recently bought 2 old chisels one of which had an entire corner broken off (lord knows how) and the other was badly chipped, and under these circumstances I thought having a big surface area to work on is an advantage.

Having said that it still took ages - thus it was a bit embarrassing to remember the next day that I actually bought a grinder last year which, having temporarily suspended my tool fiddling escapades to do other things, I had put in a box in the garage and forgotten about. I did the other chisel earlier today and needless it was much quicker to do, which meant I had time to replace the horn on my saw - see pic for evidence!

little chance of overheating with this low tech grinder, unless you are extremely energetic. I won't bother with it for normal sharpening mind you as I am happy with stones (rounded bevel and all!).

Here it is - not bad for 15 quid!
[....image....]
a lot better than the one I had before, which broke after about 15 minutes. I trust you approve Phil!

Is there much point in a hand powered wheel? - unless someone else is turning the handle, or it's foot operated with treadles, flywheels, pedals etc. Simpler to put the energy direct into wanging the blade up and down a flat stone IMHO. Hand operated leaves you with only one hand to hold the tool and can't save any labour?

On the other hand, foot operated makes sense:

 

[nabs]

those bike powered grinders are cool, and it is true that a hand powered one would be easier to use with an attractive assistant doing the winding...

... but it didn't take long for me to get the hang of whirling and steering - a bit like rubbing your head and stomach at the same time - and I made much faster progress than on my diamond stone (and the sandpaper, for that matter). like I say, it is not for use day to day (too annoying, and generally OTT), but I think will be handy to have when there is a significant amount of metal to be removed.

 

[RogerS]

I get my man to do it for me. :wink:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Bit safer than doing it nude.

 

[bugbear]

Is there much point in a hand powered wheel? - unless someone else is turning the handle, or it's foot operated with treadles, flywheels, pedals etc. Simpler to put the energy direct into wanging the blade up and down a flat stone IMHO.

Yes, well worth it - the hand powered grinders with a coarse stone cut very fast, so fast that cooling is a bit of an issue (although not as much as with 'leccy)

I use mine on particularly knackered blades. When doing coarse work, the theoretical lack of precision from only having one "control" hand is not a practical problem.

BugBear

 

[RossJarvis]

I really can't see what the fuss is about, surely when your chisel is blunt you throw it out and get a new one.

 

[Jacob]

Is there much point in a hand powered wheel? - unless someone else is turning the handle, or it's foot operated with treadles, flywheels, pedals etc. Simpler to put the energy direct into wanging the blade up and down a flat stone IMHO.

Yes, well worth it - the hand powered grinders with a coarse stone cut very fast, so fast that cooling is a bit of an issue (although not as much as with 'leccy)

I use mine on particularly knackered blades. When doing coarse work, the theoretical lack of precision from only having one "control" hand is not a practical problem.

BugBear

Yebbut what does it do which you can't do with a flat stone with the same amount of effort?

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

You're missing the power of leverage and momentum Jacob. It isn't the same effort, by using a crank handle to power the wheel, you are doing less "work" than by providing the effort purely manually. I'm sure some physicist can tell you what the formula is.