The possession of illegal timber a criminal offence

[Digit]

One of the things I'd like to know is how something gets on to the CITES list.
Last time I checked one of the species on the British list was the Wolf.
Now I don't know about where the rest of you chaps live but around here Wolves are rarer than Dodos!

Roy.

 

[matthewwh]

Is it just me or does no one in the 'lets ban wood and save the planet' camp realise that harvesting timber doesn't kill trees. If the stumps are left in and ignored for 50 years you are well on the way to being back to forest again. In fact you often get 5 new boles from one stump if it's done right. Admittedly that's bu&&er all good if you're an orang utang or a local villager but if areas of forest were designated for logging and managed properly then you could come back and reharvest the same piece of forest again in 50-100 years time and leave the rest alone.

The sale of timber is disposal of a by-product of clearing land for agriculture, if we ban snakewood or mahogany and reduce the price to a point where it is not viable to keep it for timber, it will simply be burned to make room for cows instead of logged to make room for cows. In the process releasing all of the carbon straight into the atmosphere rather than locking it up in a piece of furniture / building / boat / other useful object.

T'aint timber that's the problem, it's the sanctity of the 99 cent hamburger meal deal.

 

[wobblycogs]

Just the point I wanted to make Matt (but I was too tired last night). Outright banning of timber probably isn't a workable solution to the problem. If we allow a small amount of all of these timbers into the market the price will be high which should encourage management of the resource.

Of course it could all go wrong as we could end up with the situation where trees that give poor timber start to be come endangered because people clear the land to plant trees that give expensive, good, wood.

Ideally we (as in humans) would be able to leave big swathes of forest and jungle alone to get on with it but that probably isn't ever going to happen so we have to find a solution that is going to work.

 

[dannykaye]

a worldwide ban on macdonalds would do more for conservation, and lots of other good causes. It might also lead to bootleg burgers at raves

 

[Benchwayze]

I doubt it'll be anything as crude as a sniffer dog.

They'll have the expertise of the botanists at Kew Gardens to call on.

In fact, they already do as I remember seeing a clip of Kew Gardens, on one of the BBC programmes, identifying imported blinds as being made of Ramin.

The Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, were appointed as the UK CITES Scientific Authority for Plants in 1976.

Well... I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I mentioned sniffer dogs.

I wasn't suggesting a dog could identify what it finds. Was I? :roll:

They can 'find' wood and anything else they are trained to find. It gives the handler an idea of where to look. Evidential identification is down to forensics. In the case of botanic species well yes, as you point out, Kew would be a good place to go.

I wouldn't say sniffer dogs are a crude 'weapon'. They are very effective IMHO. But like I said, I was posting tongue in cheek!

John

 

[wobblycogs]

Although it was tongue in cheek I wouldn't be surprised if you could train a dog to distinguish between different types of wood. After all a lot of woods have a fairly distinctive smell to us which to a dog must be like a 20' sign with neon flashing lights.

I think the problem would be getting the dog to tell you what type of wood it was. Possibly have a pack of trained dogs each one trained to sniff out a different type of wood. Which ever one barks / goes to the wood / whatever tells you the species. Hmmm, perhaps that's getting a bit silly.

 

[nanscombe]

Bark? Go to the Wood?

Just allow it to follow natural behaviour when encountering a tree, or part of one. Yes, just get it to cock it's leg and mark it. :lol:

 

[big soft moose]

... and kew have a very nice badger watchingplatform in their nature area that my mate si built out of confiscated cites timber

Really :shock: That's brilliant.

I wonder if it's that one near Queen Charlotte's Cottage? Where you walk off the track, up a path and look out through windows in the timber walls (not describing it well I'm afraid).

I love Kew Gardens. As I'm a member, I try and visit it quite often.

thats the one , it over looks the badger sett (probably the best protected badgers in england as they are inside the ke security prerimeter.

my mate si used to manage their conservation area (what used to be arboretum four) and was also responsible for the man sized "badger sett" which you can crawl through and the giant chainsaw carved stag beetle and loggery

I cant recall what the platform is made out of off hand, but it was a load of illegally imported wood from indonesia that HMRC intercepted at dover and got sent to kew for such usage , just as si was looking for something to build his platform out of.

 

[Digit]

(probably the best protected badgers in england as they are inside the ke security prerimeter.

So how'd they get in?

Roy.

 

[big soft moose]

(probably the best protected badgers in england as they are inside the ke security prerimeter.

So how'd they get in?

Roy.

afaik they just live inside the fence - the arboretum areas and parkland are certainly big enough for a badger territory , and the sett has probably been there since before the security fence was put up.

that said a badger could get under the gates easily enough if it wanted to go walkabout.

what i meant was that there is no danger of the sett being dug by baiters because it is inside a patrolled security perimeter , and also these badgers dont interact with livestock so they are not at risk of illegal control , or any defra inspired cull.

 

[JoinerySolutions]

Is it just me or does no one in the 'lets ban wood and save the planet' camp realise that harvesting timber doesn't kill trees. If the stumps are left in and ignored for 50 years you are well on the way to being back to forest again. In fact you often get 5 new boles from one stump if it's done right. Admittedly that's bu&&er all good if you're an orang utang or a local villager but if areas of forest were designated for logging and managed properly then you could come back and reharvest the same piece of forest again in 50-100 years time and leave the rest alone.

The sale of timber is disposal of a by-product of clearing land for agriculture, if we ban snakewood or mahogany and reduce the price to a point where it is not viable to keep it for timber, it will simply be burned to make room for cows instead of logged to make room for cows. In the process releasing all of the carbon straight into the atmosphere rather than locking it up in a piece of furniture / building / boat / other useful object.

T'aint timber that's the problem, it's the sanctity of the 99 cent hamburger meal deal.

You are not alone, I just gave up banging on about it. You can't debate with idiots or ill informed zealots. I just try to inform my clients when questions are asked and give my honest opinion and as accurate information as I can. The fact that swathes of forest get burned to enable farming generally grabs peoples attention though sadly not enough to get governments in those areas to re-think their ways. It is very sad.
Rob.