The Marcou S15/BU Smoother - Reviewed

[Midnight]

My feeling is that the woods did not test the upper limit of any of the planes, and that the upper limit of the Marcou was a lot higher than either the LV or LN.

I'm curious.. when your review clearly states that the testing of the L-N was abandoned through the blade issue, how do you justify that remark...???

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

I'm curious.. when your review clearly states that the testing of the L-N was abandoned through the blade issue, how do you justify that remark...???

Hi Mike

A more detailed answer:

Two of the boards chosen for the test were selected because they were extremely difficult to plane without tearout. The two tuned and sharp Stanleys (my UK #4 and Colins' USA Type 11 #4 1/2) could not deal with the Maple (documented in the Review), and they simply could not cope with the Jarrah (implied when discussing the Jarrah). The control plane of Peter, his Slater infill with a Hock blade, equally was unable to cope with the boards against the grain.

The third board, the Tasmanian Blackwood, was spectactular, and it is the type of wood that is very unpredictable. One does not approach this wood without care - too expensive and too wonderful to destroy. In this case, it planed easily enough with the review planes (not attempted with the Stanleys!), and the surface result was assessed more subjectively. I pointed out that planing with the Marcou left a deeper shine.

All the review planes had no difficulty with the "difficult" boards. This was achieved more easily with the Marcou - again a conclusion that was more subjective (but echoed by all three reviewers). Of the LN and LV, the latter was the easier to use but the difference should not necessarily be due to the LN having a Clifton blade. I have had excellent performance from the Clifton - however, it will not have the durability of the A2 LN and LV blades. I expect that the addition of the LN blade should lift its performance, but not necessarily for short-term planing and rather for the results after the HCS Clifton would be expected to be dulling. So I plan to repeat the testing with a complete LN plane. I am just waiting for the new blade to arrive from LN.

The research design did not require evidence that the Marcou planed to a level where the LV and LN simply were no longer able to keep up. While interesting, this type of result is somewhat artificial and academic for most potential users of this plane. What was the aim was to determine that the Marcou could smooth difficult timber at least as well as the LV and LN, the benchmarks for excellence.

So a top end of the planes was not attempted. It is my intention to address this in my next article, which will (as I have noted) pit the LN BUS and LN #4 1/2 head-to-head in the areas of performance and handling.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Javier]

I thought it interesting that the last reviewer said given a choice he'd choose
the LV. Colin Webb said:
"The Lee Valley smoother performs at least as well as the Marcou plane. It handled
the truly difficult task of smoothing that knotty, gnarly jarrah with aplomb."

 

[Midnight]

So a top end of the planes was not attempted.

ahhhh... diagnosis by wishfull thinking.... gotchya...

you ummmm.... ever think about a carear in politics..???

 

[gcpt]

Good review Derek. Your work is informative and well presented. I have read posts from others across the pond questioning your ethics as a reviewer. I say that you made full disclosure and the reader can draw their own conclusions about your motives.

I eagerly await your review of the LV BUS vs the LN 4 1/2. Do you have a time line on that?

Does he ship to north america?
ethicsheers,

Gordon

 

[Jake]

I find it fascinating how defensive, and actually a little bit vicious, the supporters of a certain brand of planes can be.

 

[Rob Lee]

(snip)
Does he ship to north america?

Gordon

Hi Gordon...

Apparently he does... :wink: :wink:

Cheers -

Rob

 

[wiktor]

Does he ship to north america?
ethicsheers,

Gordon

[/quote]

Gordon,

I just completed one phase of development on Marcou's website.

The URL is: www.MarcouPlanes.com

There are many new models and more coming.

Wiktor

 

[CONGER]

;-))

 

[David C]

Jake,

In the original posts, the ones that provoked the furore, there was a certain "difficulty" with blade preparation and sharpening. The observations should never have been published uintil this issue had been resolved.

The direct comparison of two bevel up planes with one bevel down seems very questionable to me.

An equivalent test for someone to try might be L-N to Holtey or Sauer.

People have their preferences, but the two types are fundamentally different.

If I needed another plane, I would get a Marcou immediately! They appear to be the bargain of the century.

David Charlesworth

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

In the original posts, the ones that provoked the furore, there was a certain "difficulty" with blade preparation and sharpening. The observations should never have been published uintil this issue had been resolved.

David, I quite agree with you - I should have resolved the blade issue in an unambiguous way beforehand. This may have avoided the response that followed from LN supporters (let's be blunt about that) who, however, continued to misinterpret my comments at the time, both in the article and on the WC forum. Having said that, I take responsibility for opening the door in the first place.

The direct comparison of two bevel up planes with one bevel down seems very questionable to me.

I did answer this one earlier on. Briefly, this was not about the comparison of types of planes, but about setting a minimum performance level (the LV and LN) as the bar that the Marcou had to jump over for credibility of a "performance" tool. Therefore this was a valid demonstration in the review.

I really have no desire to rehash this thread. But I will say that I had several open discusions with Thomas L-N during and after the subsequent unsavoury "debate" on WC forum, and I even posted his assessment of the blade. In fact, Thomas offered me the opportunity to review some of his planes at the time, which sounds a great idea for some stage in the future.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

If I needed another plane, I would get a Marcou immediately! They appear to be the bargain of the century.

David Charlesworth

Infill prices don't 'alf vary. The commonest planes are A6 and A13 smoothers (all prices in GBP)

name A6 A13
Karl Holtey 4020 3840
Darryl - 750
Sauer/S 1166 -
Gerd Fritsche 867 837

(the other makers don't make this model AFAIK)

BugBear (confused, or norfolk)

 

[David C]

Bugbear,

Ray Iles? Very reasonable price.

I think it must have something to do with, reputation, experience, cofidence, and many of those marketing and selling issues which I never understand. If I put a dead animal in a tank I would not get the same price as Damien whatsit.

They will not all be made to the same standard, and the 80-20 rule may have something to do with it. ie the last 20% of increased quality takes 80% more time?

I don't know the answer, but these are some suspicions.

 

[bugbear]

Bugbear,

Ray Iles? Very reasonable price.

Damn. It was inevitable that I'd miss one-or-more.

His website doesn't list it (it's woefully out of date) but
toolsforworkinwood has his A6 at 899 dollars = 473 quid

I think it must have something to do with, reputation, experience, cofidence, and many of those marketing and selling issues which I never understand. If I put a dead animal in a tank I would not get the same price as Damien whatsit.

All agreed.

They will not all be made to the same standard, and the 80-20 rule may have something to do with it. ie the last 20% of increased quality takes 80% more time?

AKA law of diminishing returns, a point made a little lower down the scale by Derek, of course.

BugBear

 

[philip marcou]

David,

"People have their preferences, but the two types are fundamentally different. " This will soon be addressed , in the form of a smaller smoother, thick blade , bevel down , high angle bed.....
and
"If I needed another plane, I would get a Marcou immediately! They appear to be the bargain of the century". Well what more can I say other than to commend you on this astute observation?