The Marcou S15/BU Smoother - Reviewed

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Dear friends

Below is a link to the latest handplane review, the Marcou S15/BU Smoother, the handwork of Philip Marcou from New Zealand.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/marcou1/index.asp

This is a high-end smoother, with looks, performance and price to match.

What is interesting is the combination of traditional construction with up-to-the-moment design. Many special features, and a superlative performance. Here it is contrasted with the Veritas Bevel Up Smoother (BUS) and, to a lesser extent, the LN #4 1/2 Smoother.

Enjoy (lots of tool porn and construction techniques included). About 8 pages worth.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Shady]

Oh Lordy - Derek, you are a bad person. I can feel this 'plane building' bug getting ever more deeply into my soul....

 

[Chris Knight]

Dereek,
Thanks for the link to your great review. It sounds as if you rather liked that plane :wink:

 

[bugbear]

Dear friends

Below is a link to the latest handplane review, the Marcou S15/BU Smoother, the handwork of Philip Marcou from New Zealand.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/marcou1/index.asp

Nice(!) plane. Interesting comments on the BUS performance from all 3 writers.

On an unrelated note, I see this on the pages:

Copyright © 1995-2006 wkFineTools.com. All Rights Reserved.

Have you (really) signed over the copyright, Derek?

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Have you (really) signed over the copyright, Derek?

Hi BB

Not as far as I am aware. Thanks for drawing it to my attention. I will have a word with Wiktor about this.

Yes, doesn't the BUS come out well. I am waiting on a new iron for the LN #4 1/2, then I will put them head-to-head. That will probably interest a lot of people.

The Marcou is just in another class. Unfortunately the wood I had was not enough to reveal this more objectively - not to detract from the BUS and LN, which are super smoothers.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[bugbear]

The Marcou is just in another class. Unfortunately the wood I had was not enough to reveal this more objectively

Hmm. This may mean that the Marcou solves a problem that most people don't have... !

As you say:

With high-end smoothers there is a law of diminishing returns.

I guess the final balance is between an induividual's perception of the value of the plane, and an induividuals's perception of the value of $2000.

BugBear

P.S. You don't state the currency for the $2000 tag

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

P.S. You don't state the currency for the $2000 tag

Gad BB, do you want a job as Editor of my scribblings? I could do with a decent proff-retter. Ther is alwys sometyhj missing. :lol:

Answer: Kiwi Dollars

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jake]

£700 give or take, to save others having to look it up.

 

[Alf]

Proofreader and Editor are different jobs... (says the proofreader, pedantically and editorially )

So what I'm getting from this is that evidentaly he's undercharging, whilst at the same time the vast majority really wouldn't notice the £550 difference over the BUS making it "not worth the money" even at the current price (if you see what I mean). Ah t'is a blissful contradiction, is it not? So it's down to looks I suppose.

Derek, does Philip use any other bedding angle than 15°? Just wondering about a higher angle after the discussion there's been on Traditional Tools. Also the adjuster being held in place so it doesn't pop out when the blade is removed; anyone think why that might be a bad idea? Just wondering about getting out the ol' tap 'n' die set and having a look at the BUPP again... :-k

Cheers, Alf

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

does Philip use any other bedding angle than 15°?

Hi Alf

Yes. He also has the S20, which has a 20° bed. This has been one of my pet topics for quite a while, as you may know from TT and other forums. I would like to see dedicated BU smoothers with a 20° bed. This is what I see for the BUS. I wonder if Veritas will do it?!

Philip also has a mitre plane coming out. I hope that he will arise from his slumbers soon to discuss all these planes since I only have a rudimentary knowledge of them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Anonymous]

Wonderful work, Derek! I'm sure you had a great deal of fun with your buddies and these fine planes but that was a lot of hard (and much appreciated!) work.
=D> =D> =D>

 

[bugbear]

So what I'm getting from this is that evidentaly he's undercharging, whilst at the same time the vast majority really wouldn't notice the £550 difference over the BUS making it "not worth the money" even at the current price (if you see what I mean).

He's undercharging w.r.t to work that goes in, not the actual benefit (i.e. planing results).

Sadly, it's all too easy to put (costly) work into an artefact that doesn't generate enough benefit that people want to pay for.

For example...one could polish all the nuts and bolts on a car. It would put the cost up, and I suppose you could call it a better car. I'm not sure many people would want to pay the difference.

BugBear

 

[bugbear]

Someone should point out that the current price of a Holtey #98 is 1980.00 + V.A.T.

Someone has.

BugBear

 

[Scott]

Thanks for an excellent and very interesting review Derek!

Cheers

 

[Paul Kierstead]

The Marcou is just in another class. Unfortunately the wood I had was not enough to reveal this more objectively - not to detract from the BUS and LN, which are super smoothers.

So, your results did not correlate to your expectations w.r.t. to the performance, therefore it was the wood the hampered complete objectivity?

Surely you see the contradiction there. One could try numerous different pieces of wood until the plane showed that it was in its own class, but that would be quite counter to objectivity instead of reenforcing it.

 

[philip marcou]

Right Derek, I have arisen from my slumbers, thanks for fielding the odd question or two there :wink:
Alice-what is BUPP? Anyway , you can you can use a 3mm x 10 c/s machine screw for that job, being careful to locate the hole reasonably accurately so that the screw head overlaps suitably-that's for a polished job. For an inferior job you could just center punch the perimeter a little.... :wink:
Bug- I have a policy of invoicing in New Zealand dollars, so the plane is getting even cheaper at the moment.
You mention polished screws- I buy these in stainless steel-already polished Regarding "cosmetic" work, the trick is to be able to do it fast, especially if it does not enhance the working properties of the plane-I expect the customer to be paying for other more important qualities. However it must look good to me at least....

 

[Alf]

Alice-what is BUPP?

Sorry; Bevel Up Panel Plane - aka Low Angle Jack

For an inferior job you could just center punch the perimeter a little.... :wink:.

#-o Doh! Never thought of that. Not that I'd do an inferior job anyway. No sir.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

So, your results did not correlate to your expectations w.r.t. to the performance, therefore it was the wood the hampered complete objectivity?

Paul

My feeling is that the woods did not test the upper limit of any of the planes, and that the upper limit of the Marcou was a lot higher than either the LV or LN. The only way I could determine this objectively is with increasingly difficult wood to plane.

But it is really just theoretical. The woods I planed were really beyond the "average" smoother and, as I mentioned in one of my other reviews, many woodworkers will never deal with truly complex and difficult timber. For the "average" woodworker, using mostly softwoods, even a LN or LV is overkill.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Paul Kierstead]

My feeling is that the woods did not test the upper limit of any of the planes, and that the upper limit of the Marcou was a lot higher than either the LV or LN. The only way I could determine this objectively is with increasingly difficult wood to plane.

Ah well now, that is much better sounding.

For the "average" woodworker, using mostly softwoods, even a LN or LV is overkill.

Actually, as I am sure you know, softwoods can play a lot of havoc while planing; it certainly isn't only hardness that can make a wood difficult.

But irrespective of all that, it looks like a sufficient pleasure to use that I still want one.

 

[Rob Lee]

(snip) But irrespective of all that, it looks like a sufficient pleasure to use that I still want one.

Me too.... :shock:

:lol: :lol: