The language is mutating (and always has done)

[Phil Pascoe]

My aunt, an Italian, although she left when she was a girl, was in an upmarket London restaurant several decades ago when she heard the waiting staff making extremely insulting comments about customers. She didn't say anything until the bill arrived and the staff were hovering waiting for a tip when she told the to Foxtrot Oscar in no uncertain terms in gutter Venetian Italian.

 

[Fergie 307]

And you should always be aware that people may have unsuspected skills laguage wise. A friend of ours is a traffic cop. He tells a good story about doing weight checks on lorries on the motorway. On ghis occasion he was accompanied by a very attractive lady colleague. She often got involved on these occasions as she spoke a number of languages. They had pulled in an Italian lorry, whose driver spoke good English, so he had spoken to him, and she had had no need to reveal her particular talent. Whilst they were doing their traffic cop stuff on the lorry the driver and his mate started up quite an animated conversation in Italian, well within her earshot. Turned out they were discussing her various physical attributes, and the ways in which they might "entertain" her, given the opportunity. He said he almost felt sorry for these two burly blokes standing, head down and very red in the face as she tore them off a strip in fluent Italian. The gist of the conversation being dream on you perverts.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Very funny when she has to give some instruction to the folk in the kitchen and let's go with a torrent of machine gun speed Chinese through the hatch, before switching seamlessly back again.

There are some clips (probably on YT) of an American? going into Chinese restaurants and not letting on he speaks fluent Mandarin. Quite entertaining.

 

[thetyreman]

I didn't enjoy being forced to study french in school when I was good at german, my high school had a weird policy of forcing half the entire year to do german and the other half french, instead of just giving us a choice.

 

[stuart little]

And you should always be aware that people may have unsuspected skills laguage wise. A friend of ours is a traffic cop. He tells a good story about doing weight checks on lorries on the motorway. On ghis occasion he was accompanied by a very attractive lady colleague. She often got involved on these occasions as she spoke a number of languages. They had pulled in an Italian lorry, whose driver spoke good English, so he had spoken to him, and she had had no need to reveal her particular talent. Whilst they were doing their traffic cop stuff on the lorry the driver and his mate started up quite an animated conversation in Italian, well within her earshot. Turned out they were discussing her various physical attributes, and the ways in which they might "entertain" her, given the opportunity. He said he almost felt sorry for these two burly blokes standing, head down and very red in the face as she tore them off a strip in fluent Italian. The gist of the conversation being dream on you perverts.

 

[JimJay]

Try reading a book (novel) written, say in pre WW1, & compare with present ones, to see how our language has changed - even disregarding the 'modern' verbs & pronouns now so common (in more ways than one!)

Some of us still speak, and write, in such a way. I've been told that I speak English "like Bulldog Drummond"; as he was one of my childhood heroes I took that as a compliment.

I don't read much, if any, modern fiction in any language - I much prefer biography, travel and history, or the old English classics (including the now-farcically-named "N-word of the Narcissus"....FFS!) However, I don't so much resist change as simply ignore it; I'm pretty well up to date with "modern speak" and can use it when I choose to but I prefer to teach my students the kind of English they can use and be understood in any milieu (always bearing in mind that everyone also wants to learn "the naughty words").

I did read "Trainspotting" but just found it irritating and depressing: a bit of spud- and square-bashing would sort those idiots out, or finish them - either result would be acceptable in my view

 

[JimJay]

And you should always be aware that people may have unsuspected skills laguage wise. A friend of ours is a traffic cop. He tells a good story about doing weight checks on lorries on the motorway. On ghis occasion he was accompanied by a very attractive lady colleague. She often got involved on these occasions as she spoke a number of languages. They had pulled in an Italian lorry, whose driver spoke good English, so he had spoken to him, and she had had no need to reveal her particular talent. Whilst they were doing their traffic cop stuff on lorry the driver and his mate started up quite an animated conversation in Italian, well within her earshot. Turned out they were discussing her various physical attributes, and the ways in which they might "entertain" her, given the opportunity. He said he almost felt sorry for these two burly blokes standing, head down and very red in the face as she tore them off a strip in fluent Italian. The gist of the conversation being dream on you perverts.

I hope the drivers retorted with a "Is that a 'Yes' or a 'No'?"

 

[Fergie 307]

On the subject of restaurants i recall going to a lovely italian restaurant in the New Forest, Lymington I think. My mum ordered a dish very heavily flavoured with Basil. I think its a bit of an Italian clssic, although I cant remember the name of it. Suffice to say the flavour is very strong, and not to everyones taste. The waiter was kind enough to ask whether she was aware of this. He was quite taken aback when she thanked him for his concern but assured him she was quite familiar with the dish, and as far as she was concerned the more Basil the better, all in fluent Italian. We went back ther a number of times over the years, and always got a very warm welcome.

 

[Fergie 307]

Some of us still speak, and write, in such a way. I've been told that I speak English "like Bulldog Drummond"; as he was one of my childhood heroes I took that as a compliment.

I don't read much, if any, modern fiction in any language - I much prefer biography, travel and history, or the old English classics (including the now-farcically-named "N-word of the Narcissus"....FFS!) However, I don't so much resist change as simply ignore it; I'm pretty well up to date with "modern speak" and can use it when I choose to but I prefer to teach my students the kind of English they can use and be understood in any milieu (always bearing in mind that everyone also wants to learn "the naughty words").

I did read "Trainspotting" but just found it irritating and depressing: a bit of spud- and square-bashing would sort those idiots out, or finish them - either result would be acceptable in my view

Thats a good point. Also reveals a lot about how other attitudes have changed. Novels from the early 20th century and earlier are frequently littered with casual racism, homophobia and anti semitism, all perfectly acceptable at one time.

 

[Tris]

The point about reading is well made, however we are facing a situation where children will be able to read well but have no understanding of the words they speak. The phonics system is very effective but unless efforts are made to complement it with comprehension exercises then children will be little more than trained parrots.

 

[Fergie 307]

I do find it quite depressing when you see statistics revealing how few young people now read books. I always have one with me and get through at least a couple every week. Have done this for as long as I can remember, and just can't really imagine not doing so.

 

[JimJay]

Thats a good point. Also reveals a lot about how other attitudes have changed. Novels from the early 20th century and earlier are frequently littered with casual racism, homophobia and anti semitism, all perfectly acceptable at one time.

But one can still read them and let the "negative aspects" emulate the proverbial water off a duck's back. We can't judge past generations for what was perfectly acceptable at the time, not to mention that everything you cite still is regarded as acceptable in many parts of the world. Looking at it dispassionately, aren't we in the West in danger of forcing our view of how we should think, speak and behave onto other people and their culture, while simultaneously criticising Christian missionaries for essentially doing the same thing a couple of centuries ago?

 

[Spectric]

I do find it quite depressing when you see statistics revealing how few young people now read books.

They are really missing out on so much, in their younger days fiction can stimulate creativity and later on non-fiction can greatly develope knowledge and even now with so much online I still value books because they deliver something I just don't get from the web.

 

[Echo-Star]

Can I offer you some advise…….

I read John Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath" when I was in my early 20's many many years past. Long before computers and the www.

To me, it was more the lack off vowels in their Grammer in printed text, that I noticed. Rather than the American spoken dialogue, that the Ear cannot pick up on from Movies, CNN, TV Shows etc

 

[treeturner123]

Re Latin,

My brother when training to be a doctor found much of the technical language easy as he had learnt Latin. His future wife who was there at the same time hadn't and found things much harder.

Phil

 

[Phil Pascoe]

At one time you couldn't read medicine without O level Latin. It's certainly a help with understanding binomial plant and tree names.

 

[Tris]

But I'd still like to know which eejit got from Mellitis mellisophyllum to the common name 'b*stard balm'

 

[Stan]

... I have to disabuse them of the notion that every English word is preceded by "f*cking"..

Lol.

I read that during the peninsular war in Spain (1808 - 14 ), one of the nicknames used by the French soldiers for the English was "les f*ckings".

Language certainly evolves. You only have to read the King James bible to see it. When I was a kid in primary school, this was the version used in assemblies. I really struggled with the phrase "suffer the little children to come unto me". I could not understand why Jesus wanted children to suffer. Now I know that the meaning was more like "permit" or "allow" rather than what we use it for today.

 

[Valhalla]

So, it gets on his wick, like.

if he likes it like he must like it

 

[Valhalla]

aren't we in the West in danger of forcing our view of how we should think, speak and behave

It's been going on in this country for years.....now you can't call a woman a woman - but a person who bleeds................FFS