...plus...how many candy bowls made from a $200 cocobolo billet does one really need? In the same boat as you - when I first started making tools, I wanted to stockpile a bunch of exotics, especially for infill bits. At this point, I have a level of indifference. I like to use exotics on guitars where they make a tonal difference (body wood, etc, is pretty easy to differentiate - I'm a little bit less convinced about necks and fingerboards), but I'd rather have a turning that is expertly done than one that's done out of exotics and not quite as crisp. I'd much prefer if we had a good aesthetic substitute for rosewood in the united states to use for tool handles, but we generally don't (and the near rosewoods are good enough for me, just as khaya or even cherry is fine for me for a guitar body if it has the right musical nature). Turning is a little more loaded than hobby guitar or tool making, though, as you can blast through stock if you're really on a roll turning.
The ethics of tropical hardwoods
- Thread starter billw
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...plus...how many candy bowls made from a $200 cocobolo billet does one really need? In the same boat as you - when I first started making tools, I wanted to stockpile a bunch of exotics, especially for infill bits. At this point, I have a level of indifference. I like to use exotics on guitars where they make a tonal difference (body wood, etc, is pretty easy to differentiate - I'm a little bit less convinced about necks and fingerboards), but I'd rather have a turning that is expertly done than one that's done out of exotics and not quite as crisp. I'd much prefer if we had a good aesthetic substitute for rosewood in the united states to use for tool handles, but we generally don't (and the near rosewoods are good enough for me, just as khaya or even cherry is fine for me for a guitar body if it has the right musical nature). Turning is a little more loaded than hobby guitar or tool making, though, as you can blast through stock if you're really on a roll turning.
Richard_C
Established Member
An interesting price comparison. A 4.3 octave Yamaha Marimba, steel frames mid-range, is c. £4400 with Padauk note bars, the same frame with Rosewood is c. £7,300. There might be detail differences in the resonators, but manufacturing and tuning will have similar cost so the 'money' is in the Rosewood.
(A concert 5.5 Octave with Rosewood is £24k ....)
Some manufacturers are using pau rosa (Swartzia fistuloide) instead of Padauk in their low(er) cost ranges.
(A concert 5.5 Octave with Rosewood is £24k ....)
Some manufacturers are using pau rosa (Swartzia fistuloide) instead of Padauk in their low(er) cost ranges.
TheTiddles
Established Member
We should be doing more to protect the environment of our planet, the rational argument against that is hard to find. However the hypocrisy in many efforts to implement that can be quite stunning.
Some are for organic sustainable clothing, but against fur farming.
Some are for plant based only diets, but wear cow skin shoes.
Some are totally against fossil fuels, but don’t want to hunt whales for oil.
It’s all in the balance, an absolute ban of logging or forest clearance may protect a forest in a distant land, but also condemn the local population to abject poverty that we ourselves would not stand for.
Aidan
Some are for organic sustainable clothing, but against fur farming.
Some are for plant based only diets, but wear cow skin shoes.
Some are totally against fossil fuels, but don’t want to hunt whales for oil.
It’s all in the balance, an absolute ban of logging or forest clearance may protect a forest in a distant land, but also condemn the local population to abject poverty that we ourselves would not stand for.
Aidan
China is the largest importer of timber in the world, at about 16.6% ($23 billion of all imported.
Followed very closely by the United States, which is at about 15% $21 billion
Japan is at about 7% $10 billion
Germany is about 6% $8.8 billion and the UK is about 5%, about $5 billion.
timber- includes hard and soft. Actual data for hardwood alone is China, again followed closely by the US.
Apparently Ikea is the largest buyer of timber/timber products- (sheet material etc) in the world @ 21 billion cubic meters.
Followed very closely by the United States, which is at about 15% $21 billion
Japan is at about 7% $10 billion
Germany is about 6% $8.8 billion and the UK is about 5%, about $5 billion.
timber- includes hard and soft. Actual data for hardwood alone is China, again followed closely by the US.
Apparently Ikea is the largest buyer of timber/timber products- (sheet material etc) in the world @ 21 billion cubic meters.
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billw
The Tattooed One
makes sense for China to import all their timber since they’ve not much room to grow their own
Well actually thats not strictly true.(Yeah, i know it was humourmakes sense for China to import all their timber since they’ve not much room to grow their own
)They import more now due to government legislation banning many species from being harvested *" the Natural Forest Protection Program", which banned logging from all natural forests in the southwest and reduced logging from those in the northeast. 22% of China is forested.(China is nearly 9.5 million km²- About the same size as the Continental United States(The UK is 242,495 km²) They rank fifth with Russia topping the chart, followed by Brazil, Canada and the US.Nice to know the Chinese government recognize the value of having forests.
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I worked in brazil around 2000 , get talking to the locals and refer to conservation of the rain forests and in just about every case you’d be told that coming from a country that used all its old growth forests to build ships with which to invade the world gave me me no right to talk about the use of natural resources.
Personally i’d protect every english over 100 years old and introduce strict quotas for what can be felled, probably work on taking around 0.5% a year and insist on 10 for 1 replacement. Trees felled for construction projects would have a kind of “enviromental” charge placed on them. HS2 is going to do untold damage to the nations tree stock, it’ll never recover unless a great deal of value is placed on our trees.
The chinese are ruthless exploiters of anything of value, little if anything will hold them in check, at best we can slow the rate at which they pillage. Only real concerted measures at national level will make a difference and where countries don’t care international measures will achieve little against those determined to exploit resources.
Personally i’d protect every english over 100 years old and introduce strict quotas for what can be felled, probably work on taking around 0.5% a year and insist on 10 for 1 replacement. Trees felled for construction projects would have a kind of “enviromental” charge placed on them. HS2 is going to do untold damage to the nations tree stock, it’ll never recover unless a great deal of value is placed on our trees.
The chinese are ruthless exploiters of anything of value, little if anything will hold them in check, at best we can slow the rate at which they pillage. Only real concerted measures at national level will make a difference and where countries don’t care international measures will achieve little against those determined to exploit resources.
J-G
Established Member
Not true!! The project is planting 7million trees and also supporting woodland creation up to 25miles away.
Do you honestly believe they’ll be allowed to mature and be carefully managed for 200 years ?at which point they’ll still not be a a real replacement for whats lost, not to mention the wildlife that has lost its environment.
I’d rather have seen HS2 purchasing equivalent areas of similar woodland / environment that are then gifted to say the national trust in addition to the tree planting and fake woodlands.
Purely personal opinion.
If population is taken into account,
China 1.4 billion
USA 330 million
Japan 125 million
Germany 83 million
UK 66 million
then using the figures quoted:
USA imports 3.8 times more than China
Japan imports 4.7 times more than China
Germany imports 6 times more than China
UK imports 6.3 times more than China
Apparently Japan imports huge amounts of wood for making single use chopsticks.
My opinion is tropical hardwoods should only be used for their structural and mechanical properties (eg hardness, resonance) which in practice means acoustic musical instruments and not for decorative uses, not even for veneers which I think of as "fakes".
Anyhow, I thought nobody wants dark furniture anymore with the current trend for pale wood furniture, even going as far as wanting to stop wood from naturally darkening.
Anyhow, I thought nobody wants dark furniture anymore with the current trend for pale wood furniture, even going as far as wanting to stop wood from naturally darkening.
