The Cutting Edges of H.O. Studley

[Jacob]

Obviously the man who made this knew nowt about woodworking and his sharpening must have been rubbish too:

A few more snaps here

 

[Tom K]

I bet he never made a big window like you though or lived under a bridge.

 

[Jake]

Bizarre - Jacob has copped so much crap over the years for advocating this, on the basis that only ignorant amateurs "dub an edge". Then you call him a troll for being a bit triumphant when he finds some good evidence he isn't the mentalist troll he has been portrayed as? Bunch of children the lot of you. [FWIW I am not a convex beveller at all, but that isn't the point]

 

[Jacob]

I bet he never made a big window like you though or lived under a bridge.

Have you ever made anything yourself Tommy?

 

[matthewwh]

Apparently he tool chest was made by his brother, not him.

Wish I had a brother like that!

 

[Tom K]

I bet he never made a big window like you though or lived under a bridge.

Have you ever made anything yourself Tommy?

The odd mistake no highly engineered tool chests or large windows though. Don't listen to Jake we don't all think you're mental and there still are more ways to sharpen than one.

Occasional convex beveller but under treatment.

 

[Jelly]

Speak for yourself Tom... I happen to agree with Jacob.

There are many roughly equivalent methods of sharpening, but the convex bevel method has definite benefits, it is not ideal for all situations, but for most it has no major disadvantages.


With all due respect to Jacob, I suspect that his major problem is that he's right... More specifically that he believes that this, makes other people wrong. (It seems that way to me at leadt, do tell me if i'm mis-interpreting Jacob)

However irritating you find his evangalism for his prefered method, the rude reactions he gets as a matter of course can only serve to inflame his responses and stiffen his resolve!

 

[Tom K]

Far too analytical, there is no right and wrong when it comes to sharpening. Jacob loves what he does but missed his true vocation preaching the Gospel of Grim. I don't find it irritating Jacob is an institution.

 

[Kalimna]

A maxim (or is that axiom?) I find very useful in my own work is that if everybody is doing a task the same way, then it probably makes a difference to do it that way. If, on the other hand, there are many ways of achieving the same goal, used by many different people, then it probably doesnt matter which way it is accomplished. So it is with sharpening.

It is the sharpness of the edge, not the way in which it is sharpened that matters. The wood gives not a hoot what the geometry of the blade is beyond the actual cutting edge, but if it's blunt then it wont cut well, but if sharp then theres a good chance it will.

Adam

 

[Jacob]

.....
With all due respect to Jacob, I suspect that his major problem is that he's right... More specifically that he believes that this, makes other people wrong. (It seems that way to me at leadt, do tell me if i'm mis-interpreting Jacob)......

No I don't think the other methods are wrong; they obviously work, I just think the convex bevel thing is the most convenient and practical, but not necessarily the sharpest. But then we aren't surgeons or barbers.

I also think the convex bevel method was the norm until relatively recently, although it was never called 'the convex bevel method' of course. It's just that ordinary sharpening practice with oil stones can produce what C Schwarz noted:
Nearly all of the edges I observed had a slightly convex bevel. A couple tools had evidence of a hollow grind in the middle that was in the process of being removed by sharpening the bevel (making it convex).

But the main issue is the shock/horror reaction of the brethren! Schwarz seems to have done something like discovering a dead-sea scroll - dusting off the goat droppings, carefully unfolding it and sending the orthodox brethren into a tizzy.
Don't panic chaps, it's only woodwork! No need to desanctify Studley or stone me. Anyway why aren't you giving Schwarzy a kicking?

What did St J Krenov have to say on the subject of sharpening? Did he leave any holy writ? Anybody got one of those funny little plane relics to look at? Do we really want to know? Probably not. :lol:

 

[Racers]

What did St J Krenov have to say on the subject of sharpening? Did he leave any holy writ? Anybody got one of those funny little plane relics to look at? Do we really want to know? Probably not. :lol:

Jin Krenov used a hand grinder and stones, he probbaly wouldn't have wanted to know your method.

I can't help thinking that if you calmed down more people would listen to you.

Pete

Who was sharpening a home made chisel with a convex bevel yesterday, but that is for one special purpose.

 

[Jacob]

...
I can't help thinking that if you calmed down more people would listen to you......

If you look at my first post I was calmly quoting someone else, with no comment from me.
It's the reaction which wasn't calm - starting with Pedder and Jimmy both denigrating poor old Studley, in spite of his being a better craftsman and cabinet-maker than anybody on this thread or probably this forum.

 

[Racers]

Thats because we are fed up with you banging on about a convex bevel, like its going to save the world.
For someone who mocks "tool polishers" you don't half go on about tools.

You won't convert me no matter how hard you try, and I wouldn't even bother trying to convert you, just sharpen your tools how you want to and I will do the same, and the world will keep spinning.

Pete

But some how I feel you will respond, go on, try and see someone else's point, and not make them change it, are you big enough?

 

[bugbear]

...
I can't help thinking that if you calmed down more people would listen to you......

If you look at my first post I was calmly quoting someone else, with no comment from me.

Quoting is fun! From the same blog:

"The point of this blog entry is that you can sharpen a tool in a dozen different ways – your way, my way or the way of a dead guy."

"You can take the above information and twist it however you like."

BugBear

 

[GazPal]

Reverting to the discussion regarding the supposed historical traditions of concave, flat and convex bevels. The most prominent bevel type in daily use by the vast majority of craftsmen (Including stonemasons) was convex and this was by virtue that all blade whetting was done on whet stone sizes we're still familiar with today.

Prior to the Industrial Revolution the only source one would have had for grinding wheels and mechanised re-grinds would have been via a smith (Also used when edges needed re-steeling) if he had a grinding wheel, the local flour mill, or by paying a known toolmaker a visit, or waiting for the local tinker (Knife and tool sharpener) when doing his rounds. Even then, concave edges were comparatively flat by virtue of the grinding wheel diameters used and these generally ranged between 18"-72" in diameter.

The likelihood of a larger carpentry workshop having a grinding wheel was slim, as many pre-industrial revolution workshops employed journeymen (Travelling craftsmen) who'd typically move from job site to job site, unless employed by an estate workshop and carrying out work in the local manor and it's related tied cottages. Otherwise a village and outlying area would use the services of a local stonemason (Fully capable of carpentry work), multi-skilled blacksmith who carried out carpentry and coach work, or a specialist carpenter.

All of the above lends itself to the fact that convex bevels were the means by which craftsmen maintained (Whetted and re-ground) cutting edges and this was generally the case until smaller hand cranked (Later motorised) grinding wheels came to be employed more widely in recent times and the more pronounced hollow/concave grind accompanied them. The use of honing guides is just as recent a development and whilst more predominantly used within the field of engineering the cross-over into carpentry was made as DIY became increasingly popular and keen amateurs needed guidelines from which to work.

Cutting edges were assessed by eye, touch and the manner by which a craftsman knows which angle cuts best in certain materials. Such angles would be just as regional as the varieties of hard and softwoods grown and felled and the styles of furniture and house construction used.

How one obtains a suitable cutting edge is up to the individual and it's up to the self same individual to find the best possible route to any given goal. I simply advocate the method that works best and - in all honesty - this is just as variable as the length of a piece of string and there is no best method.

 

[jimi43]

...
I can't help thinking that if you calmed down more people would listen to you......

If you look at my first post I was calmly quoting someone else, with no comment from me.
It's the reaction which wasn't calm - starting with Pedder and Jimmy both denigrating poor old Studley, in spite of his being a better craftsman and cabinet-maker than anybody on this thread or probably this forum.

If you're going to quote me Mr Grimsdale perhaps you might like to spell my name correctly and also quote the statement I made in context, i.e. that it was the chests named after these gentlemen for which they are best known.

I have the highest regard for Gabriel (Kenyon, Green, Cam, Peace etc.) simply because Seaton, for reasons we can only speculate, did not destroy the tools either by hard work or neglect. Afterwards by some ancient serendipity, the same chest was preserved for us all to see what was used at the time of the dawn of commercial toolmaking, planes in particular.

This alone is the value of that name for me.

Studley I admire for the beauty, again of the chest. I have yet to study him in any detail (unlike Seaton)...but I like what I see....functional or not these days.

What I don't leap about in awe over is the shape of the darn bevels as I think this is a minor part of these treasures.

I have never ever said in any post that I think convex bevels are wrong and I don't spend my life trying to prove otherwise. I don't use a jig any more simply because I have decided on my preferred method of grinding/honing which works for me. I don't however spend my time denigrating anyone should they wish to.

As I have yet to study Mr Studley's masterpiece (whomever made it)....in detail, perhaps you could move further into the history of this fine piece for us so that we may learn a bit more about it other than the sharp bits?

Jim

 

[Jacob]

....
What I don't leap about in awe over is the shape of the darn bevels as I think this is a minor part of these treasures.....

Well yes of course, but the post was about this detail. Interesting I thought.

And still think, in spite of the fear, hysteria and hostility it arouses!

To paraphrase Schwarz from the original article; "don’t be such dullards".

 

[Racers]

Jacobs replys

IMHO the extensive lapping flattening and polishing prescribed by crazy sharpeners is verging on the insane.

If you want it to be an intellectual thread you have to say something intelligent, instead of being sarcastic and trying to discredit a little bit of evidence (of convex bevels) which you don't happen to like!

I'm surprised that the toolys on here aren't more interested in his sharpening! They have something to learn from an early tooly who was also (unusually) a woodworker.

Yes go away.

Have you ever made anything yourself Tommy?

To paraphrase Schwarz from the original article; "don’t be such dullards".


Doesn't help us to see your point when all you do is insult us so much.

Pete

 

[Jacob]

Pots n kettles.

 

[Doug B]

Pop on kettle.

Good idea, no sugar for me.