Tenon saw is not sawing coplanarly

[tibi]

Much better but it looks like you are sawing on the pencil line instead of the waste side of the pencil line, or you have chiselled away too much during the clean-up?

Actually, I have created a knife line and afterwards I made a pencil line just to see it better, the pencil line was a bit higher, but I pared the waste up to the knife line on the bottom, so pencil line is not valid here. Dovetails were cut to the tape, not to a line.

 

[Jacob]

Thank you all for your advice. Here is an update from today's session.

1. Cleaned up tails from yesterday
View attachment 145376

2. Pins cut by applying rogxwhit's advice:
View attachment 145377

View attachment 145378
View attachment 145379

I cut them with a dovetail saw that did not reach the bottom, as the board with tails is thicker than the pin board. I will clean it after the waste is cut out.

Today I did not have enough time to cut out the waste and test the joint together. If I write no message tomorrow, it means that I transferred the tails to the pin with some alignment error and I am ashamed of it

They look pretty neat to me but yes slightly off line. Just takes practice and looking hard and correcting what you are doing. Saw on the waste side - in theory you should be taking off half the pencil line. Mark the waste if in doubt. And practice on some waste first. Waste a bit of wood!
Save knife lines for the shoulder line - one place where you really need it to keep them dead straight and locate the chisel edge as you chop them out.
Knives aren't for marking in spite of the name - they are for cutting a sharp line in the few places where needed.
I don't see the point of the tape.

 

[rogxwhit]

Knives aren't for marking in spite of the name - they are for cutting a sharp line in the few places where needed.

Well, a bit of both then in that circumstance - isn't it. ;-)

 

[Jacob]

Well, a bit of both then in that circumstance - isn't it. ;-)

I'd mark shoulder lines from the rod with a pencil - can't be done with a knife. Then cut them before sawing etc

 

[tibi]

They look pretty neat to me but yes slightly off line. Just takes practice and looking hard and correcting what you are doing. Saw on the waste side - in theory you should be taking off half the pencil line. Mark the waste if in doubt. And practice on some waste first. Waste a bit of wood!
Save knife lines for the shoulder line - one place where you really need it to keep them dead straight and locate the chisel edge as you chop them out.
Knives aren't for marking in spite of the name - they are for cutting a sharp line in the few places where needed.
I don't see the point of the tape.

Thanks Jacob. I did practice dovetails before - but on a smaller scale. I do not think that this is going to be a gapless joint. And I am well aware that for such big dovetails, I am way far from being able to cut them as well as some other people do (Guillermo comes to mind), but I still hope that the gaps will not be so obtrusive. And I also hope that I will not work on many projects that require such big dovetails.

 

[rogxwhit]

Dovetails were cut to the tape, not to a line.

I was puzzled by the tape ... I've always just used a pencil.

 

[Jacob]

Thanks Jacob. I did practice dovetails before - but on a smaller scale. I do not think that this is going to be a gapless joint. And I am well aware that for such big dovetails, I am way far from being able to cut them as well as some other people do (Guillermo comes to mind), but I still hope that the gaps will not be so obtrusive. And I also hope that I will not work on many projects that require such big dovetails.

Size shouldn't make much difference if you are marking the pins from the pin holes.

 

[rogxwhit]

can't be done with a knife.

Why not?

Size shouldn't make much difference if you are marking the pins from the pin holes.

Except that it's a bigger cut in this instance, so the saw could wander further before reaching the bottom?

 

[tibi]

They look pretty neat to me but yes slightly off line. Just takes practice and looking hard and correcting what you are doing. Saw on the waste side - in theory you should be taking off half the pencil line. Mark the waste if in doubt. And practice on some waste first. Waste a bit of wood!
Save knife lines for the shoulder line - one place where you really need it to keep them dead straight and locate the chisel edge as you chop them out.
Knives aren't for marking in spite of the name - they are for cutting a sharp line in the few places where needed.
I don't see the point of the tape.

I am not sure, but I think that Mike Pekovich is the woodworker that came with the blue tape thing. But maybe someone did sooner than him. I think I have seen @Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) using it too somewhere on his site. Our masking tape is not blue in Slovakia and although we do have blue tapes, they cost 5 times more, so I would not buy them just because of colour. You cut all the lines on the tape and then remove the waste areas. The tape creates a registration edge, where you can place the saw against, so you are less prone to err when establishing the cut. Maybe someone else can explain this better.

 

[Jacob]

I am not sure, but I think that Mike Pekovich is the woodworker that came with the blue tape thing. But maybe someone did sooner than him. I think I have seen @Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) using it too somewhere on his site. Our masking tape is not blue in Slovakia and although we do have blue tapes, they cost 5 times more, so I would not buy them just because of colour. The tape creates a registration edge, where you can place the saw against, so you are less prone to err when establishing the cut. Maybe someone else can explain this better.

Nope I don't see the need. Just another of the many not so good "good ideas" emanating from the amateur woodwork mags. How did they manage before sticky tape was invented?

 

[rogxwhit]

The tape creates a registration edge, where you can place the saw against, so you are less prone to err when establishing the cut.

Yes, I sort of guessed the purpose, but was puzzled by it as a technique. What I imagine is that it looks clearly visible when you start, but that the saw can fray the edge of the tape as it cuts so you end up with a less precise mark. The frayed 'whiskers' then interfere with the sense of what's happening. You can cut into a pencil line, admittedly, but it never goes 'woolly'.

 

[rogxwhit]

the amateur woodwork mags

Is that the new name for u-tube?

 

[tibi]

Yes, I sort of guessed the purpose, but was puzzled by it as a technique. What I imagine is that it looks clearly visible when you start, but that the saw can fray the edge of the tape as it cuts so you end up with a less precise mark. The frayed 'whiskers' then interfere with the sense of what's happening. You can cut into a pencil line, admittedly, but it never goes 'woolly'.

Yes and this is the exact issue why I will probably stop using this technique. The tape becomes toothed and then I do not know if I am cutting the tape or next to the tape. Maybe someone who is successfully using the tape technique will explain what I did not get right. And for @Jacob it is definitely not necessary to use the tape. People got along without it pretty well for centuries, as they got along just fine without cars and the internet.

 

[Jacob]

....it is definitely not necessary to use the tape. People got along without it pretty well for centuries,

They still do, for cutting DTs at least!

 

[rogxwhit]

Maybe someone who is successfully using the tape technique will explain what I did not get right.

Would you trust a delusionist?

 

[tibi]

They still do, for cutting DTs at least!

Personally, I do not like the tape as it is more work, but I wanted to ensure more accurate results. I am trying everything and figuring out what works and what does not work for me.

 

[rogxwhit]

Personally, I do not like the tape as it is more work, but I wanted to ensure more accurate results. I am trying everything and figuring out what works and what does not work for me.

I can assure you that it takes more than a lifetime!

 

[tibi]

I can assure you that it takes more than a lifetime!

Yes, skill is built by repetition, improving and thinking about what I am doing, mere repetition is not enough. This is why I try various things and stick to what works for me. But I am open to any ideas and improvements. I am only 33, so I cannot say that I have been woodworking for 50 years and that is the very best way this can be done.

 

[rogxwhit]

I read and appreciate your path.

 

[Ollie78]

This does not look like a very bad cut to me, in fact pretty decent in a board that thick.
I agree with others that the tape is not very helpful, personally I like a pencil line if its a light timber, on something like black walnut a knife line is easier to see.

If the saw is always drifting the same way then it can be adjusted by lightly stoning the teeth with a whetstone to bring both sides to an even set, though I don`t know the exact details of this process.
I have been a convert of the Japanese saw for any fine work for a long time now, I seem to get better results with them.

Ollie