Teaching woodwork to school kids

[BMac]

If you want another 30 I'll endorse everything the teachers have said because it's an absolute minefield out there and you cannot be too careful.

Brendan

 

[trumpetmonkey]

Just got back, it went well. 2 boys, teacher is suggesting I just focus on them for 5 weeks - not exactly fair to the others but that's the plan.

I'm told I'm covered under the insurance as long as another teacher is present. They seemed to think it was ok to interpret that as another teacher being in next classroom (sight line through glazed partition). I'm doing it in a sort of hallway area between 2 classrooms.

I gave them one of my sawhorses each to work on and had them knocking small nails along the lines of their initials drawn on pre-cut bits of wood. I had them draw their initials in a boxy way within border lines I had pre-drawn, using a square and pencil. So it was very basic marking out and hammer and nail use. Then I planed a chamfered edge around each one and had them sand it all a bit. Took about an hour, since it took them some time hammering all those nails in.

One boy took to it well but was a bit weak on the hammer (I had a variety of weights and he preferred the smallest one). I kept having to remind hm to grip it well with fingers right round it. The other boy had less of a knack, struggled with holding the square tight against the edge, and the nails were all over the place, but he knocked them in pretty well. They both understood to hold the hammer near the end.

With just the 2 of them there were no problems with discipline etc, and just one hammered thumb but not too badly!

 

[LocalOak]

This is possibly slightly off topic but my woodwork teacher drummed an irritating yet useful mnemonic into my head - it's FEWTEL. Stands for Face side, face Edge, Width, Thickness, one End, Length. It was the order we were taught to prepare stock. Square a face side, then a face edge, then mark up and plane to width, then thickness, then square one end and and finally cut to length.

I only took up woodworking a short while ago after 30 years of nothing, but that stuck and was useful in preparing stock. Not sure if it's still taught or is even considered the modern way to do it. But if you are going to teach these kids (and despite all the hurdles I think it's fantastic that you look like going ahead) would something similar be useful?

 

[Smudger]

That sounds encouraging.

However - I think they are wrong in having the teacher in another room. For your own protection, that is not enough, let alone the kids'.

 

[big soft moose]

That sounds encouraging.

However - I think they are wrong in having the teacher in another room. For your own protection, that is not enough, let alone the kids'.

yep i agree with smudger - teacher present, means just that - present not in another room with partial line of sight but distracted by what is happening in their class.

consider two scenarios

a) what happens if one of the kids hurts himself badly - will the education authorities insurance loss adjuster agree that you are covered ? - and if not do you want to be left holding a very expensive baby

and

b) what if one of the boys alledges you touched him inappropriately ( I am not saying that you would , but kids have been known to make false allegations to get back at adults who have told them off etc) - are you happy that the other teacher will be sufficient witness to state categorically that the allegation is untrue ?

I can see the schools point of view in that they probably dont have the staff to provide the required level of cover, but for your own protection you need to nail these points down

 

[Smudger]

Precisely. And those aren't fanciful scenarios, they really happen, all the time.
Also - the teacher must be in a position to hear what you say, if that is ever contested. 'Inappropriate language' is a wide category.

If you are going to work with the same kids for 5 weeks you need to sit down with their teacher and work out what their progression needs to be.

 

[Mr T]

I interpreted the original post to mean that woodwork would be taught to the children as an additional activity, meaning that it was to be a fun activity for the kids, outside of their normal school activities. Everyone piled in saying you have to check the curriculum etc etc. I think the children and teachers are under the thumb of central govt. too much. Why can't they have a bit of fun doing things with wood without all the rest of the regulatory bagagge that burdens them in class?

If my interpretation was wrong and .Trumpetmonkey, whose background I do not know, has been asked to teach a formal class to a curriculum I would suggest that is the job of a "proper" teacher, not someone who is good at woodwork.

Chris

 

[Mr T]

Also, I have "taught" woodwork to children of just that age. I cannot imaging a junior school having a "workshop". We had a few hammers and saws and covered the desks with MDF sheets to prevent damage.

This was as an "out of school" activity, as I described in my previous post. The children and all enjoyed the sessions.

Chris

 

[Smudger]

This isn't, it is during lesson time.
Which doesn't matter, because the same strictures apply whenever you work with kids in a school. Or kids in groups that you aren't related to anywhere. Which is obvious, if you think about it.

What's the problem with listening to people who know what they are talking about?

Also - what excuse would you make to Ofsted for ignoring the national curriculum when they come to visit?

 

[woodbloke]

That sounds encouraging.

However - I think they are wrong in having the teacher in another room. For your own protection, that is not enough, let alone the kids'.

I agree with ****. In the room means 'in the room' not some loose interpretation. You actually need a qualified member of staff supervising you at all times. If you don't and something does happen, then it's your word against theirs and current state of play means that you lose - Rob

 

[Smudger]

If my interpretation was wrong and .Trumpetmonkey, whose background I do not know, has been asked to teach a formal class to a curriculum I would suggest that is the job of a "proper" teacher, not someone who is good at woodwork.

I think that has been our point all along...

 

[Mr T]

Are you sayig that ofsted would want additional enrichment activities as I described to be national curriculum directed. If that is the case there is no hope and we're all doomed.

 

[woodbloke]

Are you sayig that ofsted would want additional enrichment activities as I described to be national curriculum directed. If that is the case there is no hope and we're all doomed.

Yup, chapter and verse - Rob

 

[Smudger]

It may be an enrichment activity (or it may be enhancement, it depends) but if it happens on the school premises then Ofsted are interested. If it happens during lesson time it has to be justified in terms of the national curriculum. It has to be related to a programme of study - now you can do that in all sorts of ways, but I bet it hasn't been attempted in this case.

You would also have to assure Ofsted that the person in charge is suitably qualified and trained (in H&S) and that adequate supervision (of them) was in place - lesson plans checked against schemes of work and so on.

The days of showing up in the classroom and doing whatever takes your fancy are long gone.

Put it round the other way, instead of only identifying with the OP - how would you feel if you were the parent of the kid who hit his thumb? What assurances would you want from the school? How would your child make up whatever he missed whilst he was out of the class, and was a bit of woodwork an adequate substitute?

I'm sorry to rant, but teaching is a considered, planned and justified process, in order to bring about learning in the kids - which is what matters and what Ofsted judge schools on. Some people here seem to think it is just random activities done for the hell of it.

 

[Mr T]

We are doomed, I think I'll go away and top myself now!

Goodbye

Chris

 

[Smudger]

No. You are in a much better place educationally, where all kids get the same entitlement to the same sort of education wherever they are, no schools are allowed to ignore science (or maths as one I knew did) or teach rubbish history, or ignore anything they find hard.

Kids are protected from predatory abusers (which would have avoided 4 deaths that I know of if it had been brought in earlier) and where parents are given some, albeit crude, idea of how well their kids are doing compared to other kids and their school compared to other schools.

Parents now know that their children's teachers are graduates and meet a basic (or better) level of competence and knowledge.

There's a lot in there that I disagree with, but it's about detail, not principles.

As I say, give it a moment's thought.

 

[Mr T]

Just before I do the deed, I have to come back on that.

We home educated two of our children, they are now graduates, one is even training to be a teacher. I think that being taught for some of their educational life away from a school envirnment has given them independent enquiring minds, something that the current regimented system, bound by national curriculum and targets does not encourage.

Our youngest daughter went through the school system and, I believe, did not achieve her full potential because of the target orientated approach of the system. She hit her targets without any effort, the school did not give a toss whether she was being "stretched" as long as she attained her uninspiring "targets".

I could go on but we are getting off the subject.

I still think Trumpetmonkey should have a go at bird boxes with the children, I think the RSPB have plans for making one from a 48" X 6" X1" board.

I'm now going to stick my head in the thicknesser!

Chris

 

[trumpetmonkey]

I interpreted the original post to mean that woodwork would be taught to the children as an additional activity, meaning that it was to be a fun activity for the kids, outside of their normal school activities.

Mr T you have hit the nail on the head, thankyou. I do accept and take on board the important points made from those with teaching know-how, but still, Mr T you are a ray of light please refrain from topping yourself

Here's how things are looking to me:

- The school apparently has no teacher with expertise or interest in Design Technology.

- Whatever basic stuff is done to try and meet Nat Curriculum requirements is primarily theoretical from what I can work out.

- I am not a qualified teacher, not professing to be, not being asked to be, but as an active member of this community who cares about the future of these kids, the teacher has put a degree of trust in me to be a good influence on them, at last these 2, and I am happy to help. This teacher is taking the initiative to make use of me based on a trusting relationship with me (I know her through church and the local community too), and in my opinion that is a better test of character than CRB checks etc, though I have that too.

- Having sat through lessons as a volunteer assistant up til now, I have seen a trainee teacher making a basic spelling mistake and a stand-in supply teacher teaching that like poles of magnets attract and that Mass and Weight are exactly the same thing, and telling a pupil she was wrong when in fact she was right. I didn't want to embarrass her by correcting her in front of the class. So I don't entirely share Smudger's reservations about my competence in comparison to that of 'properly trained' teachers. I don't mean to sound self righteous, I know I have plenty of limitations and I have every respect for teachers who can manage a large class, as I know I would struggle - but still you get my point. The small thing I am doing, I am capable of it.

- I am doing my best to get the red tape side of things sorted, and I will try to persuade them to have a teaching assistant present next week. I see the sense in these worst case scenario fears and would prefer to be safeguarded in every way, however the point I want to make is that these are all side issues!! To some extent it reminds me of the anglican church fretting about buildings and administration when people are dying on the streets etc. OK, forgive me if I'm going over the top. But the point is:

Kids need role models.
Kids benefit from practical hands-on stuff that involves a degree of risk. Kids are suffering from the culture that tells them all adults are suspect.

 

[trumpetmonkey]

And I am working on the birdboxes idea, since the kids suggested it too.

 

[Smudger]

Bird boxes are good. That is what Richmond College used to do in a very successful programme with older, learning-challenged kids. It has relevance and will keep kids interested through the year.

You can also get the teacher to bring in other aspects - I don't know the KS2 science curriculum, but there'll be something there you can use to discuss and learn about birds and their habits. If nothing else it could be part of PHSE (caring for the environment).

I am distressed that the school has no-one able to do DT, as (as far as I am aware) it is a requirement that they do, as a responsibility.

But to be clear, if you are teaching kids you are acting as a teacher, which carries responsibilities to the kids and to yourself. I'm more worried about you than the kids, and I'm more worried about parents.

Having once been a mentor to PGCE students I agree about their levels of expertise in some cases, and supply teachers are often supply teachers for a good reason. But that's no excuse to cut corners!

Will you cut the parts for birdboxes yourself, or leave some for the kids to do? I'm pretty certain that our people used to let them do some of that with hacksaws, which they reckon are hard to hurt yourself with and fairly unbreakable, or tenon saws (harder to bend in half).

You could also do some design work - given the requirements of different species.

I can feel a scheme of work coming on - what sorts of birds do we have in the local area? How many of them would use nestboxes? What sorts of nest boxes would be appropriate? Design some - would they work? Make some - could you have done better? Put them out - do birds nest in them (too late for Y6 that one)?

Nope. I've retired!