esox20
Established Member
Can anyone recommend a basic metric tap and die set? Its not going to get a lot of use....wondering if it better to buy one or 2 high quality taps or a budget set... TIA
Tap and die set
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blackrodd
Established Member
Several of my friends are engineers or mechanics and most are pleased with the Bergen tools range and price,
Good quality German tools, either on the net, fleabay or vans call in to garages and sell direct to the mechanics.
See what others say, but will probably agree that good quality is cheaper in the end.
HTH Rodders
Good quality German tools, either on the net, fleabay or vans call in to garages and sell direct to the mechanics.
See what others say, but will probably agree that good quality is cheaper in the end.
HTH Rodders
Personally I have a cheap set I got from Lidl, I use these for cleaning up threads more than anything, they are not great for cutting them but will do in a pinch. For jobs I then buy the taps I need for that job, the price, type and number being decided on my needs for that particular job.
Dee J
Established Member
I've managed perfectly well with machine mart sets - both the imperial and metric sets. Tapping mild steel, brass, ally, cleaning up old threads etc. Perfectly good for having a range of common sizes on hand and perfectly capable of tapping a few tens of threads.
chaoticbob
Established Member
I've just been doing some weeding out - found this set of Silverline taps and dies. I was going to freegle them, but yours for the cost of postage if you're interested - I think I know where the missing bits (tap and die stocks and a couple of taps) are. Metric 3 - 12mmm in coarse and fine threads, all first (taper) taps I think. I ended up buying industrial stuff, so they haven't had much use, but they should be OK if you just have an occasional need.
Robin
Robin
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t8hants
Established Member
+1 for the above, you haven't said if you are expecting to clean up existing threads, or are hoping to cut new.
If you are cleaning, a cheap carbon steel may well suffice.
However if you plan to cut new, and perhaps not very experienced in the art, then it would be better to go for the sizes you need in HSS rather than the very comprehensive looking set, which often only include 2nd and plug taps rather than taper, 2nd and plug.
If you are cleaning, a cheap carbon steel may well suffice.
However if you plan to cut new, and perhaps not very experienced in the art, then it would be better to go for the sizes you need in HSS rather than the very comprehensive looking set, which often only include 2nd and plug taps rather than taper, 2nd and plug.
I bought a Völkel set last night, I've read good things about it. I trust the germans know what they do.
I understand though, that better threading sets have three taps per thread, one slight larger than the previous and the biggest is the final size, so you don't tap to final size at once. These ones from M3-M12 only have one tap per thread. Not sure if that is important or not.
I understand though, that better threading sets have three taps per thread, one slight larger than the previous and the biggest is the final size, so you don't tap to final size at once. These ones from M3-M12 only have one tap per thread. Not sure if that is important or not.
t8hants
Established Member
The methodology when using taps for cutting a new thread may mean you need up to 3 different taps.
The first - the taper tap will go into the hole yet to be threaded - the 'tapping size' hole drilled for that purpose.
This tap is undersize at the bottom and will, as it cuts, increase the depth of the thread and bring the diameter out to the correct size as well, because of its tapered shape.
Because of the tapered nature of the first tap, you may wish on thicker materials to ensure the tapped hole is parallel in its sides and thread, and to bring the threads out to their finished size follow the taper tap with a 2nd cut which will perform that job.
The 2nd cut has a small point on the bottom, so it will not fully tap a blind hole.
For this you need a plug tap. This version will cut a thread to the bottom of blind hole, but is the most easily broken if you do not pay attention to the depth of that hole.
To put it simply if the tap gets to the bottom of the thread and you keep turning, it has nowhere else to go, so it snaps.
Remember it is good practice if cutting threads in thick materials to turn the tap only half a turn at a time and then back off a quarter of a turn, allowing the swarf to clear.
The definition of thick material is twice the diameter of the tap, and a lubricant helps considerably.
The first - the taper tap will go into the hole yet to be threaded - the 'tapping size' hole drilled for that purpose.
This tap is undersize at the bottom and will, as it cuts, increase the depth of the thread and bring the diameter out to the correct size as well, because of its tapered shape.
Because of the tapered nature of the first tap, you may wish on thicker materials to ensure the tapped hole is parallel in its sides and thread, and to bring the threads out to their finished size follow the taper tap with a 2nd cut which will perform that job.
The 2nd cut has a small point on the bottom, so it will not fully tap a blind hole.
For this you need a plug tap. This version will cut a thread to the bottom of blind hole, but is the most easily broken if you do not pay attention to the depth of that hole.
To put it simply if the tap gets to the bottom of the thread and you keep turning, it has nowhere else to go, so it snaps.
Remember it is good practice if cutting threads in thick materials to turn the tap only half a turn at a time and then back off a quarter of a turn, allowing the swarf to clear.
The definition of thick material is twice the diameter of the tap, and a lubricant helps considerably.
Random Orbital Bob
Established Member
The point they're making is that a poor quality set may lose its edge (to cut) quite quickly and may therefore only be good enough to clean out threads that already exist (less cutting needed). A more expensive set, with harder steel will cut new threads from scratch many times over.
esox20
Established Member
Thanks for the advice guys.....Very generous offer from Robin thanks
Monkey Mark
Established Member
Well you learn something new each day. I never knew about them being cut in stages.
Can anyone recommend a decent set that doesn't require a second mortgage?
Can anyone recommend a decent set that doesn't require a second mortgage?
CHJ
Established Member
One option is to obtain a larger set of Carbon Steel (cheaper/free) sets for the convenience of the storage box and to get you started.
Addition thoughts on the above option.
If you learn to tap with carbon steel and assess when not to apply that 'too much little extra pressure' then you are unlikely to wreck the better quality HSS.
Addition thoughts on the above option.
1. Carbon steel will not last as long (wear) and have difficulty cutting harder materials, OK for cleaning up threads.
2. Main risk with carbon steels is breaking the taps in the hole if they bind or you apply undue pressure, back out every quarter to half turn to break swarf and remove completely occasionally if deep hole to clean out generated swarf.
3. If carbon steel pieces blunt or break take the opportunity to replace with HSS items as needed.
If you learn to tap with carbon steel and assess when not to apply that 'too much little extra pressure' then you are unlikely to wreck the better quality HSS.
I like having a set, because I usually get round to using them all.
There is another wrinkle. A proper set will have taper, 2nd cut and plug as t8hants says. But there is a difference between sets, in that in addition some are 'progressive', which means that the diameter of the taper tap is undersize, the 2nd a little less so and the plug is final diameter. You still use the recommended drilling size, which for midrange metric threads is 1 mm less than the final size (i.e. drill 9mm for an M10). Progressive taps make the process very much easier. As does the use of a cutting fluid; I use CT-90. Note also the procedure that t8hants gives.
Often the tap sets are not labelled as progressive. An inexpensive set that is, is the ToolZone set for £39.99 free delivery:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOOLZONE-TP10 ... 1387644018
These are HSS, which I have found perfectly satisfactory for moderate usage, and I haven't broken one yet.
Some dies are also adjustable by closing up the gap in the die with the fixing screws. Some cheaper sets don't have a gap between the screws. A thin cutter on a Dremel sorts this out nicely.
Keith
There is another wrinkle. A proper set will have taper, 2nd cut and plug as t8hants says. But there is a difference between sets, in that in addition some are 'progressive', which means that the diameter of the taper tap is undersize, the 2nd a little less so and the plug is final diameter. You still use the recommended drilling size, which for midrange metric threads is 1 mm less than the final size (i.e. drill 9mm for an M10). Progressive taps make the process very much easier. As does the use of a cutting fluid; I use CT-90. Note also the procedure that t8hants gives.
Often the tap sets are not labelled as progressive. An inexpensive set that is, is the ToolZone set for £39.99 free delivery:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOOLZONE-TP10 ... 1387644018
These are HSS, which I have found perfectly satisfactory for moderate usage, and I haven't broken one yet.
Some dies are also adjustable by closing up the gap in the die with the fixing screws. Some cheaper sets don't have a gap between the screws. A thin cutter on a Dremel sorts this out nicely.
Keith
Johnboy
Established Member
Interesting about the progressive or serial taps, not seen those before. Sets I have seen have all cut full thread depth but with varying amount of taper.
Wrong about the tapping drill though. The correct size drill is the nominal diameter minus the pitch. So for M10 x 1.5 pitch the drill would be 8.5mm
John
Wrong about the tapping drill though. The correct size drill is the nominal diameter minus the pitch. So for M10 x 1.5 pitch the drill would be 8.5mm
John
Tried a cheap set from Screwfix but it was next to useless and only good for cleaning out existing threads. Then payed twice as much for this set which has proved excellent http://www.tilgear.info/cutting-tools/t ... piece-set-
Johnboy":17dge9l7 said:
I've got a couple of sets but can't say I'm particularly fond of them. They didn't seem to be as good as standard taps the last time I used them.
I' ve not tried thread forming taps so wonder what they are like to use?
