Talking myself out of buying premium tools

[Woody2Shoes]

I think you're thinking very sensibly. As you suggest in your post when you mention the router plane, I think the question of old vs. new and "cheap" vs. "expensive" depends on what kind of tool it is and how (much) you plan to use it, as well as the market place. A "good" tool is one that is fit for your particular purpose at the time. A "good" tool is one that doesn't get in the way of shaping/processing wood the way you want it (which is actually where the pleasure comes from, I believe).

I use cheap and disposable hand saws and cheap(ish) Ryobi cordless tools most of the time - for rough/site/general work. I enjoy using the old Stanley No 4 and the Marples chisels I inherited from family members. I do have one or two Soba tools (but only one or two). I have a sprinkling of Luban/Quangsheng/WR tools (which are a good place on the price/quality curve for new tools, for me). I have also fallen for one or two LN tools (exclusively the bronze ones!).

 

[DrDarren]

Chris Schwarz in Anarchists Toolchest spends several hundred pages on this. I‘ve only been woodworking since 2019 and have settled on Thomas Flinn panel, hand and rip saws after starting with Japanese saws from Workshop Heaven. I will never buy another saw and enjoy the process of sharpening / setting. Starrett for combi squares that I use unceasingly. Quangosheng 8 & 4 and old Record for jack. New veritas plough and router planes. Old Stanley 78. Narex chisels. I’m now making furniture I’m pleased with - I sleep on a bed I made, write on a desk I made, eat from a table I made. The furniture will last decades easily.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't possess a boutique hand tool or even a hand tool under forty eight years old (a 5 1/2 Record bought new), so maybe I shouldn't comment.

 

[julianf]

I am not a professional woodworker, however, tools for another purpose put food on my child's plate, so they are important to me.

When starting, I see no point in buying the best of everything. Some tools you will use so infrequently that there's just no point. It's rare that a cheaper tool won't produce the same result so long as more time is spent on the task.

I've been working for 20 years, and have gotten to the point where I'd probably just buy a premium tool now, as I'm no longer needing to acquire that many, but I still have some cheap tools, as some have just never been used enough to break, and some have proved fine anyway, so there's been no point in replacing them.

It would seem like madness to me buying premium across the board right at the start, as you don't even ultimately know the direction you will go in. Buy premium for the ones you use all the time but for the one-job tools, just buy mid to even lower mid range and then theres not even much lost if you ever do find you need to "premium" them in the future.

Each to their own, of course, but that's what I would suggest, and also what I've seen from other people who's tools actually pay their way.

Hobbiest collectors will obviously have a different value structure. Equally as valid for their own pursuit.

 

[The Chiller]

This has been very helpful to me also. Thank you all and the OP

 

[Adam W.]

Snip

Our ancestors did not have those 100 EUR / piece chisels and special 600 Eur shooting planes and they made furniture that was in many ways superior to the one that we are building now. They just used the tools that were available to them at that time. They were not obsessed with them.

/Snip

Coming from a family of London tradesmen and having done a little bit of research into tools from the 18th and 19th centuries, I beg to differ. London joiners, cabinetmakers and carriage makers tools and the chests which housed them were exceptionally refined and made from the very best materials.

These tools were not only objects used for work, but also as objects to signify of status.

 

[Jacob]

There's a lot of retro fashion which isn't altogether about making better tools, it's about fashion and shopping (with hints of Steam Punk).
In fact two things in particular make them worse: Norris adjusters and thick blades.
These were superseded by the Stanley/Bailey design over 100 years ago.

I don't think I've got any "premium" tools any longer. I've tried few and sold them on. Just sold my expensive Eze-Lap diamond plates - probably the last extravagance! My two best saws were £14 the pair on ebay.

 

[Nigel Taylor]

I like nice tools and I like using them to make nice stuff.

Mine are predominantly bought second hand, as I don't like new tool prices.

I think there is a quality that you get with secondhand that you don't get with new tools. Also, I think we all have a responsibility to re-use, repair and keep tools lasting longer.

I find that when I buy cheaper new tools I either end up regretting it or spend ages upgrading every single part of them - that's for machine tools more than hand tools

 

[Keith 66]

"Premium" hand tools? I never bought any, I have an eclectic range of chisels & planes sourced over a lifetime of boatbuilding & woodworking, chisels by more than a dozen long gone makers, planes by stanley, record & others.
Many are as good or better than any so called premium tools of today.
As for prices, No4 planes going for 100 euros? In that case i need to have a search in my mates scrap yard, we will be rich!

 

[Jameshow]

I found a few things with tools.

The more tools I have the less wood working I've done!!

The tools far outstrip the skills I have even faithfull or silverline planes!

I deem it sensible to get quality tools for those tools that are used most regularly. Cordless drill, jigsaw, circular saw, squares, chisels, planes, etc.

Other occasional tools - SDS drill, angle grinder, power planer etc it doesn't matter what quality they are.

Obviously I'm not trade or Bob the kitchen maker whose needs are somewhat different!!!

Cheers James

 

[sometimewoodworker]

'Buy cheap buy twice' was what my old man always said.

That’s the policy I follow. I don’t do much hand tool stuff however I’ve still using power tools I bought 50 years ago. In that time one circular saw was lent out and came back with a lot of bits missing, a belt sander has a cracked casting & a cheap power planner may still work but it’s a poor tool so doesn’t get used.
Every other tool works and is used.

 

[Just4Fun]

Our ancestors did not have those 100 EUR / piece chisels and special 600 Eur shooting planes and they made furniture that was in many ways superior to the one that we are building now.

That may or may not be true, but I don't think it is relevant. My choice of tools is constrained by my budget and my needs & my desires, not by what my great grandfather had. Just like I drive a car without feeling any pressure to use a horse and cart like my ancestors must have used.

I deem it sensible to get quality tools for those tools that are used most regularly .... Other occasional tools .... it doesn't matter what quality they are.

That is exactly my approach, even if my selection of tools where quality matters is different. Almost all of my tools are old; some are good tools and some are basic but get the job done eventually. I don't have any modern "premium" tools so I don't know what I am missing in that respect.

 

[Devmeister]

Oh my. Here we go again. Paul Sellers is half right. Yes, he does not buy the new premium stuff, but the used stuff he has is top shelf. Some of the finest work including the work done by chippendales were done in england on tools not made by lie nielsen. I am envious of you Brits for having access to some great used stuff. Vintage marples box wood chisels, Norris planes and wadkin machines from the 40s to name a few. Look up bill Carter on youtube and follow along with him as he builds an infill plane in his shed. Note his tools and his work. I have sold off a bunch of my gadget modern tools. I just exported a 1944 wadkin lathe to the states. Yes, there is work in restoration. But I have never regretted my decision to sell the modern premium tools and I have never been happier.

 

[Ollie78]

Balance is hard to find in this debate. If course given an endless bucket of cash we would all go crazy for the shiniest and best tools.

I have some better stuff now, but when starting out I could not afford Festool and Veritas etc.

I have learned over time that cheap stuff is a false economy, but also that a £50 vintage Stanley number 5 is a very effective tool and at least 95% as good as a Veritas.

I think for a tool you use every day it is worth getting good stuff, also buy good measuring and marking tools as these are the start of everything you make.

If you look at the cost over time then the more expensive stuff becomes less of a sticker shock, I have had my CT26 for ages and its still going strong whereas before I was buying a new cheap vacuum every 2 years so in the end the Festool is cheaper.

There is room for trying stuff out and then re selling it if you don't get on with it as well.

Ollie

 

[tibi]

Thank you very much for all your opinions, they are very diverse. I will buy tools as my skills evolve and what my projects will require. I also want to build some wooden planes myself.

 

[Dangermouse 2nd]

I have a mix of restored Records, ( better than Stanley) , a couple of Rider planes, ( not too good, but passable) , several Queshange from workshop Heaven, ( premium planes at resonable prices ), and three Lie Neilsen planes, (which cost the earth, but are really nice) So I'd say have a bit of a mix and match, buy whats needed, not whats new and high end just for the sake getting a bit of bling. Buy what the work / wood needs.

 

[stuart little]

For power tools, this is much more evident. I personally have a cordless drill from Lidl, that was recommended to me by a friend that it is a high quality tool and it is a real bargain. The chuck on it is always loosening and it drove me crazy when I was assembling a metal roof on my workshop and the bits were falling down from the roof and I needed to go down and pick them up every time. You can bet that my next cordless drill will be DeWalt.

But there must be a point where an increase in price does not equal an increase in quality. And you get diminishing returns in quality for every unit of price paid after a certain point. I do not know if this point is called Quangsheng or Jumma or Luban in woodworking world.

I have two DeWalt brushless drills, the chucks loosen on both, which, is caused by the motor brake. I do suffer from 'Arthur Ritus' & CTS so I can't tighten the chuck as tight as it needs to be which does add to the loosening.

 

[tibi]

I have two DeWalt brushless drills, the chucks loosen on both, which, is caused by the motor brake. I do suffer from 'Arthur Ritus' & CTS so I can't tighten the chuck as tight as it needs to be which does add to the loosening.

Can you advise me of a brand where this does not happen?

 

[Daniel2]

Can you advise me of a brand where this does not happen?

Festool

 

[D_W]

Oh my. Here we go again. Paul Sellers is half right. Yes, he does not buy the new premium stuff, but the used stuff he has is top shelf. Some of the finest work including the work done by chippendales were done in england on tools not made by lie nielsen. I am envious of you Brits for having access to some great used stuff. Vintage marples box wood chisels, Norris planes and wadkin machines from the 40s to name a few. Look up bill Carter on youtube and follow along with him as he builds an infill plane in his shed. Note his tools and his work. I have sold off a bunch of my gadget modern tools. I just exported a 1944 wadkin lathe to the states. Yes, there is work in restoration. But I have never regretted my decision to sell the modern premium tools and I have never been happier.

When you get into something like toolmaking, as bill does, there really isn't an option to buy "premium tools" to be a maker. There are a few things like lie nielsen floats, but they're intended for beech planes and won't do much on the bed of an infill.

There's an opportunity to use a milling machine, lathe, knurling tools, etc, but most of the fitting work is done by hand. Folks who come into infill planes wanting to do everything with machine tools generally end up making fairly ugly planes (to do so with refinement so as not to have a bunch of blocky stuff with bad proportions takes a whole lot of time/money involvement - ala karl holtey).

The biggest tax to me on the premium tools, other than that they don't really shine when you get into multi hour periods prepping wood, sawing, etc, is that they are all bright new surfaces. If you use old tools and sharpen with oilstones, "tool care" will be nearly zero. When I had a gaggle of premium planes, I didn't leave them in the shop long and pulled them all from time to time to check for rust blooms and then oiled them. That's not a particularly enjoyable use of time. Also, while most of the new tools are malleable cast, if you drop them, you can break handles and bend rods, etc, and without replacing all of those bits, the tools won't be right again. How much does a handle and rods cost? I have no idea, but it's probably close to the cost of a stanley plane.