Table saw vs. rail guided plunge saw

[pastrugno]

Hi,

I am a beginner and so far I enjoyed doing a few projects with a jig saw, router, cordless drill and a couple hand planes. Now I reached the stage where I would like to get a good power saw and I cannot decide between an entry-level table saw (e.g. Makita MLT100, which received good comments in this forum) or a rail-guided plunge saw (e.g. Festool TS55 or Makita SP6000). I am leaning towards the plunge saw for two main reasons: space (I work in my basement in a room 3x3.5 meters...) and safety (I have the impression that with a plunge saw my fingers will be less close to the blade...).

What is your advice ? is a plunge saw really safer than a table saw ? what will I miss from not having a table saw ?

Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge

 

[ike]

I recently got to use a plunge saw (a Makita with extra rail on offer from Axi) and it was a revelation. What a brilliant bit of kit! I rate it as an extremely useful and competent tool and it is ideal for cutting flat stock.

The table saw though, I think is unmatched by any other tool in terms of ease of use, accuracy and safety, for ripping narrower stock.

cheers,

Ike

 

[Martingchapman]

Given the size of your work room, the saw and rail are the best bet to get started.
For a table saw you need a minimum of the full length of the timber you are trying to rip both in front and behind the saw, and the full length of the timber you are cross cutting one side plus half the length you are cross cutting on the other side of the saw (to enable cuts at the end or middle of the wood).
With the saw and rail you only need a little more than the length of the timber you are cutting.
There is more setting out to do with the saw and rail, and it is difficult to rip very narrow stock, for this you do really need a table saw or a bandsaw which can also make stopped cuts and curves.
For the moment though, to rip narrow stock, you could use the jig saw (with a rip guide) and then plane the resulting edge.
Also, in time you may want to consider a Mitre saw for accurate cross cutting.

If you decide to go for the saw and rail you can not go wrong with the Festool TS55, although beware, once you have one Festool you are then on the "slippery slope" and will want more.

Hope this helps - Martin.

 

[dessoman]

I have the Dewalt plunge saw and rails and can rip narrow stock no problem with it upto 2.6m long plus its also great for trimming doors in place

 

[FatFreddysCat]

I think it all depends on what you are doing. If you intend to do joinery-type woodwork, e.g. door casings, doors, windows, etc. you'll probably do better with a circular saw in conjunction with a chop saw or a crosscut saw. For narrow pieces rail systems can be far from ideal as there are sometimes major clamping issues to overcome. That said you need a good 13 feet or so to rip down a 6ft door frame jamb or a door stile. The real downside to small table saws is that they need huge extension tables to handle sheet materials so initial breakdown with a portable saw is often necessary.

If your work is more sheet goods or installation oriented then a plunge saw and rail are wonderful (I use the Hilti WSC 255-KE and rails) although a low-cost home-made alternative might be to make-up your own saw board from a piece of straight 2 x 1 PAR softwood attached to some 4mm MDF sheet. From experience I prefer the Hilti over the Festool - they use the same guide rails but the Hilti can be used as a conventional saw as well and has the advantage of allowing you to see the cut point (shielded on most other plunge saws) which can be essential if cutting out openings in floors, solid doors, etc.

One other point to note is that if you are going down the plunge saw/guide rail route most saws come with a single 800mm rail. This is useful if all you are doing is trimming doors to length, but in real world situations such as ripping down an 8 x 4ft sheet of plywood you often find that you need a couple of 1400mm rails and a set of joiners as well which in Festool will cost circa £135 over the saw and rail

 

[russ_1380]

HI mate

I was in the same situation.


I'd say go for a rail system eg festool/dewalt first. They are fantastic, definitely worth the money. I love mine.

In accuracy stakes, you'd be surprised how accurate you can get with these systems, all depends on user (human) error; ie. lining up the guide rail with your marked out lines. This is where I struggle. Even so, the results are ace considering it is only ever a hand power tool, not a fixed machine like a table saw.

The other peoples' comments are very wise; to sum up I'd say the rail system is fantastic, but it will never compete with the accuracy of a table saw no matter what people say.

I'm now looking for a table saw for more accurate (and I mean really accurate) work, but the festool will be far from disused.

You'll probably find it would be beneficial to have both (in an ideal world where money is no object) as the festool could be used to rip large sheets into more manageable pieces to take onto the table saw and for site work/diy where very accurate work is not needed. Plus the big benefit of festool/dewalt; they are portable!

From what I was told, the rail system gives you more accuracy than you'd need for site joinery/diy, you just need to provide some ingenuity. However when you require real accuracy (say for really fine furniture making), a good quality table saw will blow the festool out the water.

Get one mate, you wont be disappointed but just bare in mind, if you want ultiate accuracy for cabinet making, I've been advised that I will crave a table saw eventually.

 

[Niki]

Hi Pastrugno

I think that you can make very accurate cuts with the rail system...

As Russ_1380 put it - "All depends on user (human) error; ie. lining up the guide rail with your marked out lines."

To get a perfect accuracy (and even repeatable), I don't use pencil marks...I use Knives - yes, those small utility knives and a ruler with stop...the rest is on the posts below...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... highlight=

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... highlight=
Disregard the "Off-set plates", I use them because I don't have a rail guided saw...

Regards
niki

 

[pastrugno]

Thanks to all of you for your feedback, it's really valuable and useful. Some comments/questions:

Ripping (very) narrow stock: dear Ike, Martin and FatFreddysCat, thanks for the warning -- I understand the clamping challenge with (very) narrow stock. Dear Dessoman, any tips you can share on how you rip narrow stock ? Would it help to use a home made version of the MFT/3 such as the one in the picture below? it should keep the rail stable and actually turn the whole rail into a clamp to keep even narrow stock safely in position... any experience or comments ?

(sketch up model available here)

Precision: dear Niki, thanks for the tips and links, really smart :idea: which makes me wonder if I should start with a non-plunge circular saw which probably costs one third of a Festool TS55 (I am very much aware of the "slippery slope" mentioned by Martin ;-)). What model would you suggest ? on Axminster I saw the Makita 5703RK or the Bosch GKS65 (which also has an aluminium rail) ...

Dear Russ_1380, thanks for the encouragement and warning, what is the price range of the table saw you are looking at that would give the extra precision you describe?

Safety: may I ask you once more your opinion about safety, is the plunge saw+rail guide really safer than a table saw or is it just my impression ? I read about the "dead wood concept" on eurekazone.com but cannot say if it is just marketing hype. As you probably realized I am a bit obsessed by safety... what are the potential dangers that I should look out for with a rail guide ?

Cheers

 

[oldboy]

Hi Pastrugno,
I have been using a table saw (PK200) to make cabinets, kitchen, wardrobes etc for 4/5years.

Then i bought a festool ts55 with rails...a revelation. Not only festool machines are very well designed and a real pleasure to use but the rail concept is absolutely brillant, fast, precise and safer.

I have now moved to the mft/3 (a friend of mine got one and is not using his pk200 either!) and find it extremely versatile. It just makes the job so much easier. I gained in precision and speed.

Note that u need to save a long time because festool is pretty expensive but the tools work well together, the same power cord can be used on all of them so in the end I think it is so much more confortable.
Good luck to you

 

[FatFreddysCat]

Would it help to use a home made version of the MFT/3 such as the one in the picture below? it should keep the rail stable and actually turn the whole rail into a clamp to keep even narrow stock safely in position... any experience or comments ?

Can't see the images you point to (yet), but to do very narrow cuts on a table saw you often need to resort to a zero clearance insert or the like potentially in conjunction with a featherboard to keep the material pressed against the rip fence. I've seen the MFT/3 and whilst it's an interesting concept there is a limit to the length of cut possible, isn't there? On the other hand to illustrate the point I had the experience not so long back of having to rip ash taper wedges to "scribe" architrave mouldings to the wall where the plasterers have screwed up the job. Cutting 1.8m long x 18mm wide can be done with a plunge saw and rail providing you start with a wide enough piece of material which (and this was on site, not in the workshop). The tapers produced ran from nil or a couple of millimetres up to 6 to 10 mm thick but it was necessary to screw a much wider strip to a backing board and use a second piece of material to support the back edge of the rail. I probably only threw away a quarter of my attempts, but hey it saved me a four hour round trip back to base.

 

[DaveL]

Here are the picture and link posted by pastrugno

(sketch up model available here)

 

[russ_1380]

Pastrungo:

Hi there.

Well I have a budget of around £1000 for my table saw (hopefully within the next 12 months). I'm still looking into it, so please take my advice with a pinch of salt and listen to more experienced members; i'm only a beginner and may well be talking out my @rse......

I posted about table saws and alternatives a while back, and the general consensus was; they can't be beaten or accuracy. (Even for beginners like me).

From what I was told; for really accurate work its generally easier on a table saw with jigs and fences. Simply because there is a fixed, rigid fence to align your work with and reference to (reducing the human error associated wi rail systems). I suppose this could be done with the festool but, in my experience, only with a lot of 'faffing around' making jobs fiddley to complete.

Don't underestimate the festool though, its ace. However, for the accuracy you need to make a really nicely aligned piece of furniture, I doubt you'll match the ease of a table saw.

The other option I looked at was the mft table from festool; a suped up workbench that will allow you to use the festool saw to cut perfect 90/45 degree panels. It can also be used for many other things such as clamping, routing etc......

I considered this option instead of a table saw, but I came to the conclusion:

-The saw cost me around £475......... plus the mft table at £500 = the thick end of £1000. A lot of money in anyones book.

For that money you could get yourself a decent table saw (i'm told), which appears to be the better tool. Hence why I'll go for a ts next rather than spending more money on 'suping up my festool'.

If I was to do it again, I'd get a festool but pehaps a second hand one to save some moolar; see how I get on, then if I felt the need (as i do now), save for a table saw.

I hope I haven't confused you! You're certainly wise doing as you are though, researching is the best way to save money in the long term especially with tools.

If you are ever around my end, you are more than welcome to have a play on my festool.

 

[ivan]

Don't forget the Mafell saw. Every bit as good as the Festool, and the latest version seems to have a few extra tricks of its own, including a very nifty scoring device, and visible stop/start points etc. Fits both Mafell and Festool tracks.