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Spectric

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Used a decent blade to cut a load of Sapele and no problems, it had cut a load of redwood prior to this but then I ran a small amount of 18mm MDF and the blade is shot, changed it and now that one is also very dull. Is MDF that harsh on a 315mm table saw blade with 48 teeth ?
 
Yep, as Chris Schwarz refers to it: "termite barf". Basically, dust held together with formaldehyde glue. Very abrasive on tools unfortunately.
 
I just use a gen purp blade but for a lot of MDF etc I have a designated blade.....
I have found not a lot of difference between high end blades and the lower mid range except the big named variaty can be resharpened....(my saw has a 3phase, 4hp motor)......but that costs quite a bit and I dont think it's worth it unless u can find a decent firm to do it......
Here I just use throw aways cos there's nobody to resharpen....

On my 305mm chop saw I will not cut MDF etc except with a blade just for that purpose.....
a 90 tooth blade is almost €100 euro's here.....it only takes a min to swop blades.....
in fact I use 3 blades on that saw....1,dedicted MDF, Laminate, 2, general framing jobs, gates and lastley a blade for the good stuff...
 
Not in my experience. I’d guesstimate that my Festool track saw blades only noticeably blunt after several hundred meters of mainly 18mm MDF. I use either Medite or caberwood pro. I know that’s not a table saw, but I can’t really see there being a difference?
 
Man made materials are generally a lot harder on your blades
I won't argue with that, but MDF is generally considered to be about as abrasive as European beech as far as wear and damage on saw blades in use is concerned. It's a little curious that this 48 tooth blade was okay hacking sapele and pine (ripping and/or cross cutting? not specified), but was then almost instantly, seemingly, shot to pieces cutting up a little MDF. And then a second blade is fooked-up after an unspecified time cutting up more MDF.

I've been known to cut up whole bundles (pallet loads) of MDF into smaller bits over a couple of days dimensioning the material using a similar high count toothed blade with nary a problem, and the blade still good to go for more ... although, admittedly, not for ripping solid wood, a 48 tooth blade being entirely the wrong tool for the job.

There's something amiss with this story from Spectric, but I've no idea what; could be a blade made of either monkey metal or soft cheese, for example, or maybe the blades were dull to start with. Slainte.
 
Basically, dust held together with formaldehyde glue. Very abrasive on tools unfortunately.
Not in Europe where we have low formaldehyde MDF. I don't know what goes into some of the hardwood plywood we use for sarking boards, etc. these days, but when you hit pockets if it it is worse than trying to saw cement

If you want harsh on saw blades, try cement fibreboard or Supalux fire board - both eat PCD blades
 
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It was ripping, and the redwood was 45° cuts but no problems. The blades are AW from sheffield. The MDF part sheets were being reduced and initially cut well but after twenty or so cuts it was noticably harder going so changed the blade. Same happened to next blade. Looks like I will try my Makita tracksaw but place is a little messy due to tidy up and weather not so good to do outside but this would have been my first option now I have the Makita.
 
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Did think of metallic but no trace either visibly or with detector but did not think of stone, perhaps they had a shortage of sawdust so used stone dust instead.
 
Not in Europe where we have low formaldehyde MDF. I don't know what goes into some of the hardwood plywood we use for sarking boards, etc. these days, but when you hit pockets if it it is worse than trying to saw cement

If you want harsh on saw blades, try cement fibreboard or Supalux fire board - both eat PCD blades
Low formaldehyde, but still some; though I suspect the "resin" bit is more pertinent in terms of damage.

I have occasionally seen the odd tiny spark when cutting MDF, so it's possible there's something "unknown" mixed in too; basically the hotdog of the wood world.
 
Ripping hardwood, then cross cutting softwood, then cutting sheet MDF… all with the same blade? Sounds like you might have a technique issue.
 
Gents, I'm still very new to the wonderful world of power saws. I have a table saw and a new (still in the box chop saw) both came with general purpose blades which they claim will cut wood and aluminum, you probably shuddered at that. Can somebody recommend the blades I should buy and their purpose assume complete ignorance and you won't be far wrong. Not suffering under the burden of a heavily overloaded wallet I'm looking for the minimum I need for reasonable results without ruining blades or timber. I intend to cut hardwood ply, pine and small quantities of hard wood.

Spectric - hope you don't mind me piggy backing on your thread, it seemed to be going in a similar direction.
 
Low formaldehyde, but still some; though I suspect the "resin" bit is more pertinent in terms of damage.
Were you aware that both chipboard and softwoods can contain much more formaldehyde than MDF? I seem to recall watching a video on YouTube (10 Minute Workshop?) which demonstrated that MDF isn't particularly toxic.In terms of toxicity. There are far worse things in my world.

I doubt that I'm alone in thinking that the biggest issue with MDF is the small particle size, which means that you need point of production dust extraction and adequate filtration, something the vast majority of vacuum cleaners and woodworking "chip collectors" are incapable of providing. In my work environment arguably the mechanical grinding, cutting and drilling silicate-bearing materials such as concrete mortar, blockwork and bricks is far more hazardous because of the risks associated with silicates (silicosis).

I have occasionally seen the odd tiny spark when cutting MDF, so it's possible there's something "unknown" mixed in too; basically the hotdog of the wood world.
I think that one or two sparks from time to time are far more likely to indicate surface contamination picked up in handling. Was the MDF rested on the road at any point? Was the delivery vehicle bed clean? How was the MDF handled in the yard? For that matter, is your riving knife too close to the blade? I've seen minor sparking from time to time with softwoods (bullets in one instance), OSB, plywood (resin glue pockets) and chipboard (calcite inclusions and metal), particularly chipboard which is generally made with a percentage of recycled fibres and therefore can sometimes contain whole screws. Does that make them "hotdogs"? Any timber which is handled badly, e.g.dragged across a timber yard or building site, laid down on a roadway, etc can pick up inclusions which will cause sparking
 
Gents, I'm still very new to the wonderful world of power saws. I have a table saw and a new (still in the box chop saw) both came with general purpose blades which they claim will cut wood and aluminum, you probably shuddered at that. Can somebody recommend the blades I should buy and their purpose assume complete ignorance and you won't be far wrong. Not suffering under the burden of a heavily overloaded wallet I'm looking for the minimum I need for reasonable results without ruining blades or timber. I intend to cut hardwood ply, pine and small quantities of hard wood.

Spectric - hope you don't mind me piggy backing on your thread, it seemed to be going in a similar direction.
Most blades will cut most things, it’s just how well.
Ripping means cutting less grain fibres and the blades typically have less teeth and bigger gaps to help clear the cut material out. Using a high tooth count blade will be slow, and likely overheat it especially if your dust extraction isn’t good.
Cross cutting involves cutting lots of grain fibres and the blades typically have lots of teeth. Using a low tooth count blade will give a rough finish.
MDF, ply etc doesn’t have fibres or they’re in every direction, so you’d use a high tooth count blade to get a smooth finish.
Metals don’t have fibres at all, but usually have a less aggressive tooth profile to reduce the chances of the blade catching instead of cutting and ripping the workpiece away or firing the saw back at you.
Tooth profile changes for all of the above to optimise results.
In every case you need to take the material away from the blade quickly or it’ll increase heating and make more of a mess.

Buying one good crosscut blade and one good rip blade is most of what you will ever need, keep the multi purpose one for anything you don’t want to damage your nice blades with
 
Were you aware that both chipboard and softwoods can contain much more formaldehyde than MDF? I seem to recall watching a video on YouTube (10 Minute Workshop?) which demonstrated that MDF isn't particularly toxic.In terms of toxicity. There are far worse things in my world.

I doubt that I'm alone in thinking that the biggest issue with MDF is the small particle size, which means that you need point of production dust extraction and adequate filtration, something the vast majority of vacuum cleaners and woodworking "chip collectors" are incapable of providing. In my work environment arguably the mechanical grinding, cutting and drilling silicate-bearing materials such as concrete mortar, blockwork and bricks is far more hazardous because of the risks associated with silicates (silicosis).


I think that one or two sparks from time to time are far more likely to indicate surface contamination picked up in handling. Was the MDF rested on the road at any point? Was the delivery vehicle bed clean? How was the MDF handled in the yard? For that matter, is your riving knife too close to the blade? I've seen minor sparking from time to time with softwoods (bullets in one instance), OSB, plywood (resin glue pockets) and chipboard (calcite inclusions and metal), particularly chipboard which is generally made with a percentage of recycled fibres and therefore can sometimes contain whole screws. Does that make them "hotdogs"? Any timber which is handled badly, e.g.dragged across a timber yard or building site, laid down on a roadway, etc can pick up inclusions which will cause sparking
I'm not anti-MDF; I used way too much of it in a former life making loudspeakers. I would indeed be more concerned about the health problems due to the dust than the formaldehyde (I'm not sure why formaldehyde levels has become a topic of contention?).

Fortunately (because I hate the dust it produces) I've not done any serious machining of MDF in years, though when it was done it was treated fairly carefully as the outside surfaces were often only going to get paint (i.e. we didn't want to scratch them as it made the finishing much harder).
 
I think the fear of formaldehyde is coming from the same type of people who are scared of flying but happy to drive to the airport
 
I think the fear of formaldehyde is coming from the same type of people who are scared of flying but happy to drive to the airport
Are they the same sort of people that will wait for a parking spot as close as possible to the building... when going to the gym? ;)
 
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