Superduper newbie budget challenge!

[EchoSevenNine]

Hi guys,

After many years of yearning for a lathe i'm finally taking the plunge and going for it, but just like most people i'm tied to a budget.

I imagine i'll be into a bit of everything but probably more into bowl turning than spindle, so after much (blind) research i've come up with the following...

Record Power DML305 - Decent 12" capability over the bed and a solid bed rather than bars, also extendable later on if required.

Record Power G3 Chuck package.

Robert Sorby 67hs chisel set.

Postage is a killer for lathes, especially to Northern Ireland so i'm hoping to buy local to avoid it. The magic number i hear you ask?........£500. This may take some sweet talk to the salesman.

Does anyone have any advice on my un-educated choices at all? All comments welcome as i don't really want to be buying the wrong thing if theres something better out there.

Cheers,
Eddie.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Try to join a club. A little experience (I assume you have none) might alter your thinking, and you might find yourself in the right place at the right time and pick something good up from someone trading up.

 

[Woodmonkey]

You will also need a grinder of some kind to sharpen your tools, you will become demoralised very quickly if you don't have sharp chisels

 

[nicguthrie]

As woodmonkey says, you'll quickly get disillusioned with things if you can't get your tools sharp.

Check out captain Eddy Castellain on YouTube and his free tips on making the "black hawk" jig for getting your grinding right... That's your cheapest option for a jig, and jigs help a lot.

Also get Keith Rowleys book foundation course in wood turning (as best I can recall, that's the name) - it'll save you weeks of hassle and quite probably a few dangerous accidents, like trying to use your roughing gouge on a bowl blank...

Have fun tho! It's a great hobby and can be a lot more than a hobby if you "get the bug"

Nic.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[EchoSevenNine]

Thanks for all the advice guys, much appreciated.

Unfortunately the closest i can get to a club here is a course at 200 quid which is almost half my meagre budget!

I do already have a 6" bench grinder, would i get away with a suitable stone for that or do i need a dedicated sharpening system? If so, any half decent ones out there at reasonable money?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Waterstones market place have four copies of K.R. used for 64p +P&P (£2.80 iirc) at the moment.

 

[EchoSevenNine]

Waterstones market place have four copies of K.R. used for 64p +P&P (£2.80 iirc) at the moment.

Great call there Phil, thanks. Just ordered it @ £3.43 to my door... absolute bargain.

May just save me a few injuries as well as a few quid!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Good call. I think it's generally accepted as being the best beginners book.

 

[Castanea]

It looks like a good little lathe in many ways. What it lacks is the ability to turn the head so you are absolutely limited to twelve inches - and if you are starting with anything but a pre-cut blank your finished size will be rather less than that. Variable speed is very nice to have so that's a big plus. If I were looking for a lathe and had bowls in mind though I'd be looking at whether I could get anything which would let me turn the head so I could turn bigger and less regular bits of wood. It depends on where you intend to get your wood to some degree. If you intend buying bowl blanks which are pre-cut I think it will serve you better than if you are hoping to pick up bits of wood here and there to turn bowls green.

Depending on your patience levels I'd also suggest keeping an eye open for what's available second hand. There are good second hand bargains about but you do often have to wait and watch to get them.

Just my three ha'pence worth - hope you are happy with whatever you end up getting

 

[nicguthrie]

Glad you got the book, it's very well written, pretty easy to pick up and go straight to the reference that you need.

I know for certain that it's saved me from a few injuries, I'd no idea of the dangers of some fairly arbitrary stuff (like the roughing gouge vs bowl blank thing, and a few others) and would have charged in blindly. You can YouTube the result of what happens, from one brave soul that was willing to illustrate the problem, but I'd not advise it if you can't stand the sight of blood!

Thinking about safety, do you have that covered? You can spend hundreds on dust extractors, masks, ear defenders etc etc, but the bare minimum is a basic P2 rated breathing filter, whether you choose paper disposables or something permanent is up to you, A cheap proper face shield for turners like http://www.axminster.co.uk/safety-visor and basic ear defenders, whether you choose disposable foam plugs, headphone type ones or whatever... even noise isolating headphones is better than nowt, so long as you keep the cord inside your shirt!

Put it out there to the forum about how essential any of the three is, and you'll get pages of experience - all pretty much saying "how much are your eyes, lungs and ears worth?" :wink:

You don't have to pay a fortune, you can add better extraction etc over time, but please, don't miss out your safety gear.

Nic.

Edit: To clarify: a paper mask, basic headphone type ear defenders and the face shield will only set you back about £30 - You can add better and further stuff as you go!

 

[rdesign]

look on done deal if your really wanting to get a great deal for your money ... http://www.donedeal.ie/tools-for-sale/w ... ?offset=18 great lathe for 424 sterling in armagh

 

[Rhossydd]

basic ear defenders,

Do we really think ear defenders are an absolute necessity for beginners ? I don't.
Hearing protection is very important without a doubt and some types of woodworking create dangerous levels of noise, eg routing, machine planing/thicknessing, sawing, biscuit jointing etc, but turning ?
Most lathes have quiet induction motors that don't present a significant level of risk to hearing when used in an amateur workshop.
There's possibly an argument that being able to hear clearly how the tool is cutting is more important and might give warning of impending problems.

Once you move on and use power sanding or continually powered dust extraction, then hearing protection becomes important.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Glad you got the book, it's very well written, pretty easy to pick up and go straight to the reference that you need.

I know for certain that it's saved me from a few injuries, I'd no idea of the dangers of some fairly arbitrary stuff (like the roughing gouge vs bowl blank thing, and a few others) and would have charged in blindly. You can YouTube the result of what happens, from one brave soul that was willing to illustrate the problem, but I'd not advise it if you can't stand the sight of blood!

Thinking about safety, do you have that covered? You can spend hundreds on dust extractors, masks, ear defenders etc etc, but the bare minimum is a basic P2 rated breathing filter, whether you choose paper disposables or something permanent is up to you, A cheap proper face shield for turners like http://www.axminster.co.uk/safety-visor and basic ear defenders, whether you choose disposable foam plugs, headphone type ones or whatever... even noise isolating headphones is better than nowt, so long as you keep the cord inside your shirt!

Put it out there to the forum about how essential any of the three is, and you'll get pages of experience - all pretty much saying "how much are your eyes, lungs and ears worth?" :wink:

You don't have to pay a fortune, you can add better extraction etc over time, but please, don't miss out your safety gear.

Nic.

Edit: To clarify: a paper mask, basic headphone type ear defenders and the face shield will only set you back about £30 - You can add better and further stuff as you go!

Good points, well made Nic.....the safety aspects are frequently overlooked in the stampede towards tools and the more exciting stuff.

 

[Castanea]

I would suggest there is a heirarchy of protection and that not all of it is needed all the time.
Eye protection is top of the list - it's the one thing I always use.
Full-face protection - some people use it all the time, I use it if I have any doubts about a piece of wood but once I'm confident the wood is well chucked and balanced and bits aren't likely to fly off I generally do without it and just use goggles.
Respirator or mask - for me it's down to what I'm doing. If I'm turning wet wood I don't feel I need one, if I'm turning dry wood I find the dust does me no good at all and tend to wear a respirator when turning as well as sanding. I'd suggest a valved respirator is more effective than a paper mask but that's partly down to my beard making paper masks all but useless for me.
Ear protection is something I've never used when turning. I use it (and a whole lot more) when chainsawing but the lathe doesn't seem to give my ears any grief and I do get useful information from the sounds the lath and tool are making.
I was sent on an abrasive wheel training course for work last week and was surprised to find that a respirator and goggles (not just glasses) are now considered compulsory in the workplace when using a bench grinder. We were shown the inevitable graphic pictures to back up the message.
Many chippies will say no rings, bracelets or watch as well as tying back hair and not wearing loose clothing.
At the end of the day, at home, it's up to us what we use but it's always worth thinking "what if . . ." at every turn. It's also worth bearing in mind the law of maximum cussedness which states that If a thing Can happen, it Will. The more the inconvenience the greater the probability!

 

[EchoSevenNine]

All good points.

I'm definately no stranger to woodworking and power/hand tools and the safety aspects that go along with them. I dont think i'd be too bothered with the ear protection unless i feel like i need it at the time but a dust mask and full face mask is a must imo.

I've actually had a local member PM me with an offer to see his woodturning setup, which i did and was suitably impresssed and have finally decided on an Axminster 1218vs over the DML305.

Just waiting on the bloody stock now!

 

[BearTricks]

No point having a lathe without sharpening gear.

I bought Screwfix's Titan grinder for about £30, a diamond dressing tool and a white wheel from Abtec. The Titan is 8" and has a more powerful motor than most. It's a better piece of kit than most of the <£50 budget grinders.

I knocked up the jig in Keith Rowley's book with some hand tools. It has a few dodgy holes in it where my drill didn't go through straight and I wouldn't let any seasoned turners see it, but it gets my gouges sharp without much effort.

I got my lathe second hand with some tools thrown in for £400. I bought a 3M 7500 half face mask which goes on before I step in the shed and a honeywell bionic face shield which hasn't taken a beating from a chunk of wood yet, but will pay for itself when it does. I haven't used ear protection, but I have thought about running in to the house to grab some ear plugs when using certain woods from time to time.

For everything needed to get started, it probably came to £500 for me. On top of that I've probably spent about £200 on wood and I'm currently waiting on my first proper chuck since the piece of crap that came thrown in with my lathe flat out refuses to do it's job. That's another £140. After today I wont need to buy anything else for a while until my stocks start to dwindle.

 

[nicguthrie]

I'm definately no stranger to woodworking and power/hand tools and the safety aspects that go along with them.

And here we were giving tips for a "Superduper newbie"!

If it looks like the Axi model is going to take a long time to come in, you could always try the Jet. I bought the Jet 1416VS back when it was £500 on sale with the Evolution Chuck thrown in, it's an excellent lathe, but I appreciate that it's now a lot pricier. All I mean to say is that Jet seems to make fairly decent kit, should you want the choice.

As for ear defenders, I brought them up cos anything that leaves your ears ringing or feeling a bit numb will cause damage with continued exposure. My ears are particularly sensitive, and having the extractor, the lathe, the air filter and the occasional squeal from a particularly sappy or dry bit of wood is way over my comfort limit, so I just slap on the ear defenders at the same time as the rest as a safety habit. They're not particularly silent inside, I can still make out the sound of the tool, it's just a lot quieter. (But then I can hear my cat enter the room from it's footsteps on the carpet, so your experience may differ)

I hope you enjoy your turning, the single most important thing in my head tho as support for starting, is to get help by a jig or something for your sharpening. Either the Keith Rowley book's one, or Captain Eddy's YouTube guide one are both free. Keeping the shapes of your tools uniform is very challenging as a beginner (I'm still very much one, so I speak from experience) and nothing puts you off turning faster than not being able to get consistent results, which happens if your tools aren't sharp enough or keep changing profile as you practice!

All the best.

Nic.

EDIT: Seems I confused myself, the 1416VS I bought is Axi too, I had planned on getting the Jet 1221VS until the Axi 1416VS suddenly went on that bargain, hence my confusion. Sorry.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

But please do bear in mind that in order to turn effectively your bevel doesn't need to "look pretty". I do think there's a lot of confusion with turning tool sharpening over this holy grail of the "single facet bevel" which ostensibly looks as good as a factory ground tool. That "prettiness" is not actually important, what is, is the profile of the cutting edge and perhaps how "in the way" other bits are like wings or heels for tight transitions on spindles and transitions between walls and bases on bowls.

You will be able to turn and great results if the cutting edge is both sharp and the correct profile. Now it's probably reasonable to argue that by leaning on a jig you will achieve exactly that...the other stuff ie a pretty looking bevel is a side effect. All I'm saying is understand the important bit which is the very edge, the angle it's ground at and it's profile because I wouldn't let expensive gadgetry be a barrier to entry if it wasn't accessible for economic reasons.

So to summarise, the hierarchy might look something like:

2nd hand 6" bench grinder (white wheel) - circa £40. All other jigs are home made wooden platform of various types cf Chas's threads in the turning stickys. Equally in this category is Jacob's inverted belt sander with about 3 different grits of belt and also wooden home made jigs

above but with a 3rd party jig "system" like the wolverine or the Tormek's BGM-100 and their jigs

A Tormek or clone complete with wood turners jigs

A Proedge complete with woodturners jigs

The closer to the cheap end of the list you are, the more effort you have to put in to build it, opposite being true at the expensive end of the list. (A Tormek is actually more than a PE so that might also sit at the end, it's clones are cheaper though). With all jigged systems there is a setup time, though that can be short. I have a bench grinder, a Tormek and a PE and there is no question whatsoever that the PE delivers the fastest setup time and that's because it has the detents pre-drilled in its adjustable platen.

 

[EchoSevenNine]

Thanks for all the advice guys it's very much appreciated.

Im gonna get myself the 8" Record Power grinder with white stone and a "ebay special" jig, just to keep the edges true-ish.

I'll still keep an eye on the second hand market for a lathe between now and the end of July (when Axminster's stock is due again)... might still get lucky!

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

best of luck and keep us posted.