Suitable material for painted doors and face frames

[dlowry_uk]

Hello,
I'm making an alcove builtin for TV/hi-fi etc. Its a wide alcove (190 cm), so I'm considering 3 separate cabinets in MDF with adjustable legs. They'll be levelled in situ, screwed together and to the wall. I don't have a drawing package, so apologies for the long-winded description

The central cab is bigger with 2 doors (like a kitchen sink unit), and the outside cabs narrower singles.

I'm happy making the cabs and top from MDF, but would like advice on the face and door frames. The doors will be shaker-style, and the whole thing will be painted. It would seem a shame to use good hardwood for the frames considering the painted finish, but I'm concerned that getting a good finish on the edges will be hard with MDF, and warping might be a problem with cheap pine for the door frames.

Any suggestions? I've seen tulipwood mentioned in this context in other threads, but I'm not quite sure what it is.

 

[Chris Knight]

Tulipwood, Canary whitewood, Poplar are all names used for Liriodendron Tulipifera which is an excellent wood for your purposes. It is a very cheap hardwood (as hardwoods go) stable, finishes well with just about anything, easy to work and generally straight-grained.

The wood is an American import and not to be confused with Tulipwood from Brazil which is an endangered exotic.

 

[dlowry_uk]

Chris,
Thanks for clearing that up. I'd come up with everything from American Southern Pine to the exotic brazilian when googling for "tulipwood", so wasn't sure what forum members were referring to.

Sounds like just what I'm looking for,

Drew

 

[engineer one]

in my view the only way to go with painted doors is mdf.
you could edge them in "real" wood, but filled with car body filler
and rubbed smooth, then primed in aerosol car paint, it will
take a good finish, gloss or matt.

i have been able to do 6foot high doors which are about 18inches wide,
and they have not warped or moved in over a year.

paul :wink:

 

[dlowry_uk]

Hi Paul,
Are you talking about solid slab doors, or frame-and-panel? Another worry I had about MDF was the joinery since I want frame-and-panel doors. Presumably you have to use biscuits, and I've no idea whether thats suitable for door frames.

Drew

 

[tim]

I do a lot of painted stuff and I do use Tulipwood for the doors etc. It does take paint well etc etc.

BUT - I would suggest in this instance that for a fairly small project like this that it makes sense to make the doors out of MDF. You are right that getting a clean edge on MDF can be tiresome but as Paul has pointed out you can use a whole bunch of stuff to smooth them. (there are some threads which should turn up with a search). I use thick plasterboard filler compound.

It will be just as quick as planing up the required amount of timber and once painted no one will know (or probably care :roll: ).

Cheers

Tim

 

[engineer one]

hi, no i would not make solid doors with mdf, too b**** heavy,
so i made them out of 18mm x90 mm sides and with thicker cross pieces
for both beauty and also strength.

the panels are made of 6mm mdf.

i used lay on kitchen hinges.

you could use biscuits or dowels. either work.

paul

 

[dlowry_uk]

The balance of opinion seems to be in favour of MDF. I haven't used it for anything where cut edges are visible before, so I'll search the forum for finishing tips.

I was thinking of using faceframe hinges like these from woodfit

http://www.woodfit.com/product_info.php ... B+-+Sprung

as I don't think I can use lay-on hinges unless I have a very thick faceframe. Does that make sense?

Drew

 

[JFC]

Mdf doors with mdf frames and butt hinges , a little tip from Jason B to me was to predrill the hinge screw holes and use thin screws , i used 11/4 no 4s or was it 1" . They held fine with no splitting .

 

[jasonB]

I would make them from MDF, i've done lots of shaker style kitchen doors and wardrobe doors from it.

I have found the easiest construction method to be grooves and loose tounges the same thickness as the panels like this and this

Using a decent make of MDF will also help to get a better edge finish as the cheap stuff from the sheds is a bit fluffy, look for something like Medite or Caber. As you can see by the colout of the MDF in the pics I use Moisture resistant board which I find finishes better on the cut edges than standard MDF. A bit of searching will turn up my painting method, and a look through some of my albumswill show you quite a bit of painted MDf stuff.

If you are going to have the doors laying onto the front of the units, I don't see much point in having a face frame they are used more where the doors are inset into the frame. But if you must have a face frame then the hinges you linked to will work fine, the only point to watch with them is that the hole needs to go quite close to the door edge otherwise it fouls the mounting plate, a 3mm radius on the door edge will help avoid that problem.

Jason

 

[dlowry_uk]

Thanks for the replies. The loose-tongue method looks like a great idea. Avoids messing around with stopped grooves when joining with biscuits.

Jason, the faceframe was mostly for aesthetic reasons. I need to scribe a filler between the cabinets and the walls anyway, and would like to cover the seams between the individual cabinets. Also, the "client" is my missus, and she didn't want the unit to look too much like our (frameless) kitchen cabinets!

Ok, decision made on MDF for the frames.

Thanks
Drew

 

[George_N]

How durable is a paint finish on MDF? I suggested painted MDF cabinet doors to SWMBO for our kitchen but she has taken the view that a paint finish will look scruffy in no time. Is a clear lacquer over the paint the best way to protect the finish? If so what?

cheers

George

 

[jasonB]

I have done kitchens with oil based eggshell that have been in for several years and they still look as good as when fitted. It is also possible to use matt emulsion paint and then apply a clear acrylic such as Dulux Diamond Glaze or barfords Aquacote.

If you have the facilities then a sprayed acid- cat or pre-cat finish is more durable.

Jason

 

[George_N]

If you have the facilities then a sprayed acid- cat or pre-cat finish is more durable.

Jason

acid-cat :?: pre-cat :?:


cheers

George

 

[jasonB]

Pre-cat = Precatalyst Lacquer, A one part lacquer

Acid-cat = Acid Catalyst Lacquer, A two part lacquer where and acid is used as the hardener(catalst)

These are the type of finish you will find on commercially available doors. I is a process involving several coats of sealer, base and top coat and needs very good equipment to get a good result and the time between coats is quite important.

Jason

 

[johnelliott]

We make lots of shaker style doors, similar to Jason B in as much as the grooves in the styles are the same thickness as the centre panel (6mm), although we cut tongues to fit on the ends of the rails

We use water based paints, for a number of reasons, mostly the smell but also the fact that it dries MUCH quicker. The problem with plain MDF is that the water raises some of the pressed fibres on the faces (this doesn't happen on the edges) so to get round this problem we used veneered MDF and there is a bonus inasmuch as the grain shows through the paint and looks great.

When customers are concerned about the use of MDF I explain that if you make a shaker style door with solid wood rails and styles, there is a good chance that cracks will appear in the paint where the panel enters the styles

John