Stuck threads on Record 405

[DigitalM]

A Record 405 that was part of a monster-bundle-gumtree-haul I snoofled, has some threads binding. I've not really forced them as I thought it might be better to consult those who know more than my good self.

The stuck threads are (left-to-right of yellow highlighted things in photograph):

[1] Cutter adjusting nut
[2] Cutter bolt wing nut
[3] Depth guage adjusting nut

Any advice on freeing these things up (hopefully!) without messing up the finish would be appreciated. How is this finished? Is that the casting as finished? Or is it plated with something?

Anyway. There we go. Sad photo follows:

 

[sunnybob]

Use one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-13771- ... 0324513478

Totally adjustable for size, and huge torque without causing any damage. Spray the thread first liberally with wd40, and if its still stiff once it starts to move, keep spraying.
You might struggle getting it onto the one thats enclosed, but it should still be doable.

 

[MikeG.]

Brake fluid is the traditional approach. You might want to test a drop of it on the finish first.

 

[AndyT]

I'm fairly sure it's a left hand thread on the cutter adjuster which looks like it's at the end of its travel, so make sure you are turning that one the right way.
The finish is nickel plating which won't be harmed by rust remover, if rust is the problem.
WD40 isn't very good for stuck threads. Try penetrating oil, Plus-gas, diesel, or a mixture of brake fluid and acetone, and patiently wait for the fluid to creep into the threads.

I'd try one of those first, followed by locally applied rust remover if it doesn't work.
I'd use a pair of pliers with some leather in the jaws to avoid scratching.

If none of these work, you could try electrolysis on the whole body as a single lump, but you'd risk getting a tidemark where you would leave the wooden handle poking up out of the solution. However, there's not much rust on the rest so it might be quite quick to get inside where the rust presumably is.

The 405 is a great tool but no good without all the threaded parts working properly.

 

[bugbear]

I'm fairly sure it's a left hand thread on the cutter adjuster which looks like it's at the end of its travel, so make sure you are turning that one the right way.
The finish is nickel plating which won't be harmed by rust remover, if rust is the problem.
WD40 isn't very good for stuck threads. Try penetrating oil, Plus-gas, diesel, or a mixture of brake fluid and acetone, and patiently wait for the fluid to creep into the threads.

I'd try one of those first, followed by locally applied rust remover if it doesn't work.
I'd use a pair of pliers with some leather in the jaws to avoid scratching.

If none of these work, you could try electrolysis on the whole body as a single lump, but you'd risk getting a tidemark where you would leave the wooden handle poking up out of the solution. However, there's not much rust on the rest so it might be quite quick to get inside where the rust presumably is.

The 405 is a great tool but no good without all the threaded parts working properly.

I was going to reply, but Andy has said everything I was going to say!

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A little gentle heat on them wouldn't hurt, either. The penetrating oil will run in a bit easier.

 

[AndyT]

I was going to reply, but Andy has said everything I was going to say!

BugBear

Sorry BB. I don't often get up so early on a Monday morning!

 

[DigitalM]

I'm fairly sure it's a left hand thread on the cutter adjuster which looks like it's at the end of its travel, so make sure you are turning that one the right way.

That's that one free! As you described, wasn't turning the way I expected at all, and your description encouraged me to give it just a tad more leverage and it shifted a blim. Liberal wd40 and some rocking back and forth within where it was now moving and it continued to free up until it's now travelling along full length!

Thx!

 

[DigitalM]

A little gentle heat on them wouldn't hurt, either. The penetrating oil will run in a bit easier.

I've got a heat gun come to think of it. A mapp gas torch had crossed my mind but I was a little unsure about what it would do to the finish!

 

[DigitalM]

Use one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-13771- ... 0324513478

Totally adjustable for size, and huge torque without causing any damage. Spray the thread first liberally with wd40, and if its still stiff once it starts to move, keep spraying.
You might struggle getting it onto the one thats enclosed, but it should still be doable.

Thanks, I'll try the various fluids first I think, and keep this in mind if they're still refusing to budge.

 

[DigitalM]

Brake fluid is the traditional approach. You might want to test a drop of it on the finish first.

I hadn't even heard of this one - thx for the tip.

 

[Seiken]

If you want a better grip on the adjusters without damaging them wrap a strip of rubber (from a pushbike innertube) around them first, its surprising the extra force you can apply without resorting to pliers or grips.

 

[DigitalM]

Update:

[1] FREE! > Liberal amounts of WD40 and turning it in the correct direction!
[2] FREE! > Several attempts with WD40 and then brake fluid, and it eventually eased up with leather wrapped pliers.
[3] FREE! > This one took the longest. Eventually a generous blow with the heat gun + WD40 + leather wrapped pliers and it was moving around 2mm. Repeated every 15 minutes with WD40 soak in between and it's out.

Anyway, so pleased that it means that this 405 will be a user.

I've started to set about cleaning up the threads with a brass toothbrush. I'll put some 'Singer Super Oil' on them for the time being, but any suggestions about what to use as a more permanent protection in these gratefully received. I'm paranoid now after all that effort - I spent the last hour terrified I'd break or cross thread something. What a relief!

Thanks for all the tips, I know you probably all think they're obvious (I didn't know all of them!) but it's heartening to make sure you're not missing something before doing something that might totally ruin a good tool if you do it wrong!

 

[AndyT]

Excellent news. For protecting steel to stop it going rusty again, I use Renaissance wax, which is a brand name of microcrystalline wax. Others are available but it's so economical in use that I'm still not half way down my tin.

There's a thread about it, listed in the Restoration sticky at the top of the hand tools section.

I've also used some Shield rust inhibitor (from Workshop Heaven) on some little used carving tools and it's been fine so far. Very unobtrusive when applied and again a little goes a long way.

 

[DigitalM]

Excellent news. For protecting steel to stop it going rusty again, I use Renaissance wax, which is a brand name of microcrystalline wax. Others are available but it's so economical in use that I'm still not half way down my tin.

There's a thread about it, listed in the Restoration sticky at the top of the hand tools section.

I've also used some Shield rust inhibitor (from Workshop Heaven) on some little used carving tools and it's been fine so far. Very unobtrusive when applied and again a little goes a long way.

What do you reckon I should use on the threads? Or do you mean Renaissance can be used on those too?!

 

[AndyT]

Yes, it's fine on the threads. A few drops of 3 in 1 oil would also be fine.

 

[ED65]

Great you got all those turning without too much fuss. With threaded stuff it's not always as simple as this but in the last couple of years I have had pretty consistent luck freeing up things that should be rotating but are stuck if there's the least amount of play. Some wiggling to and fro with a lubricant in there and before you know it it's spinning freely.

Doesn't even have to be what we think of as a lubricant proper, doesn't even have to be oily or waxy; just the other day soapy water did the trick on something I was scrubbing clean (the idler pinion on a hand drill). It had until that point been stuck absolutely solid, as evidenced by the hammer dents from a concerted previous attempt to get the thing to shift

About wax, there's no need to go after something like Renaissance Wax. And just like camelia oil I would do my best to dissuade anyone from getting them as they're frankly a bit of a swizz. Just about any wax in paste form will work about as well as anything else, from old-style car wax in a tin to furniture waxes to something you melted together yourself on the stove, as long as you apply it properly and top up periodically.

 

[DigitalM]

Agh, spoke slightly too soon, we have one casualty on the 405, and not caused by me.

It's the "Cam Steady" (I thought that was something they used in major motion pictures!).

The bolt was free, but when I backed it out to lube and clean it, it has sheared. The end is still in the base. I guess I could try to drill it then find a bolt?

Had a look online for spares but couldn't find one.

Hyper-Extreme longshot: Anyone have a spare "Cam Steady"?!

 

[AndyT]

I don't have a spare - sorry - but I can confidently predict that you will never need to use it!

(Ok, prove me wrong if you like - and post a picture of you cutting a centre bead a long way from the fence on a piece where you can't just run the plane alongside a batten. :lol: )

They do crop up on eBay from time to time, but probably only from a Stanley 45 or 55 - which do get broken up for parts more often than the Records. Pretty sure they are interchangeable.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Presume the bolt has sheared leaving nothing to grip ? Could try a stud extractor, if it is already loose it might work; but maybe the end of the thread is damaged which was what prevented it unscrewing in the first place. Then you have the fun of finding a replacement bolt !