Straightening a VERITAS MOLDED SPINE backsaw.

[Trafalgar]

I'm sure the last thing on the mind of the Veritas tool designer was the importance of making his backsaw repairable were someone to bend it, or he wouldn't have the thing epoxied in the first place.

Yes, unfortunately. Epoxy does imply a fairly high degree of permanence. Perhaps a touch on the over-engineered end of the spectrum in this case. People drop saws and the floor rarely loses the battle.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

More than a few of the boutique makers here in the states hold the saw plate in with epoxy. I know my Gramercy DT saw has a folded spine, but LN saws use a milled spine with epoxy.

One of the reasons I chose the Thomas Flinn PAX tenon saw was because of the traditional folded back. I bought mine from "The Best Things", came with a walnut handle, and is listed today at $109.00 for a 14" rip. I reshaped the handle and applied a bit of boiled linseed oil. After this bit of "dressing up" you would be hard pressed to not mistake this saw for one of the $400 boutique saws.

 

[Trafalgar]

More than a few of the boutique makers here in the states hold the saw plate in with epoxy. I know my Gramercy DT saw has a folded spine, but LN saws use a milled spine with epoxy.

One of the reasons I chose the Thomas Flinn PAX tenon saw was because of the traditional folded back. I bought mine from "The Best Things", came with a walnut handle, and is listed today at $109.00 for a 14" rip. I reshaped the handle and applied a bit of boiled linseed oil. After this bit of "dressing up" you would be hard pressed to not mistake this saw for one of the $400 boutique saws.

I have a Pax panel saw and a Pax gent's saw and I've never been anything but pleased with either one.

I guess if a firm mills the spine rather than folding it (sometimes the old ways are BEST for a reason) then some sort of adhesive has to be used. What a disappointing shortcut for Lie-Nielsen to have taken. Borders on stupid. I wouldn't buy a backsaw with a glued-in plate. I don't care whose it is or how wonderful it's supposed to be.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Veritas say on their site that the spine is made from stainless steel powder for weight, glass fibre for strength and polymer resin binding - which would suggest (to me) that it's moulded on not machined and stuck.

 

[Tony Zaffuto]

Just examined my LV carcass saw, with molded spine. No evidence of flash from the spine to the saw plate - so a very clean, excellent job, if plate was molded around spine. This is a question best asked of LV, however, to mold around the saw plate, the material would have to be heated, correct? Would this not add the potential for warping the blade?

Regardless, I would give LV an A+ for putting excellent saws on the market, that also do the job of the boutique makers, at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I wouldn't have thought it would fold after it had set, no matter what heat was used. Actually it says the bolts are moulded into the spine, which would preclude the spine being folded, but it also makes me wonder what the bolts (in the spine only) are actually for if the whole spine is held by resin.

 

[J_SAMa]

Good news, I checked the saw against a straight edge and well, it's out by between 0.05 and 0.10 mm (according to my cheap, not-necesarrily-accurate feeler gauge). That's not too much is it? It looked and felt like a lot though. I guess it was because I tested it in 2" thick pine. It's a dovetail saw after and will probably never see material thicker than 1". So I won't be too unhappy even if it never gets fixed. With a bit of wax it should work fine

One thing though, I was going to buy the new Veritas Tenon saw but this is making me think twice... Shame, it's a real bargain (Pax is more expensive over here).
Not too keen on antique saws (probably one of the only antique tool categories I don't like) as I've yet to see one that is completely straight.
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LV replied but couldn't give an answer as they couldn't quite understand the problem without a picture. Will send it tomorrow and see what they think.
It's really weird how no one else has this problem with their Veritas or fixed-backed saw in general, at least Google can't find anyone.

 

[J_SAMa]

Looking at the fact that neither the toe nor the heel of the spine is open (folded spines' heels are open), it would be hard to mill the spine and then fit it over the plate. The spine was most likely moulded over the plate.
But then their new Tenon saw, which looks like the ******* child of a surgeon's bone saw with its curvy toe, is of quite a different construction... It's got two pins and looks more like it was milled and then fitted.

 

[Trafalgar]

Good news, I checked the saw against a straight edge and well, it's out by between 0.05 and 0.10 mm (according to my cheap, not-necesarrily-accurate feeler gauge). That's not too much is it? It looked and felt like a lot though. I guess it was because I tested it in 2" thick pine. It's a dovetail saw after and will probably never see material thicker than 1". So I won't be too unhappy even if it never gets fixed. With a bit of wax it should work fine

One thing though, I was going to buy the new Veritas Tenon saw but this is making me think twice... Shame, it's a real bargain (Pax is more expensive over here).
Not too keen on antique saws (probably one of the only antique tool categories I don't like) as I've yet to see one that is completely straight.
-----------------------------------------------------
LV replied but couldn't give an answer as they couldn't quite understand the problem without a picture. Will send it tomorrow and see what they think.
It's really weird how no one else has this problem with their Veritas or fixed-backed saw in general, at least Google can't find anyone.

Mark and saw a set of tails and see. Try to split the line on the face grain to see if the wave in the plate pushes the cut too far into the line in places. If the wave/bend is visible on casual inspection I'd expect the saw to be no good for dovetailing if your expectation is that they fit off the saw. It needs to look straight to your eye. If it does, it's probably fine.

 

[HeathRobinson]

Seeing all the recommendations for Pax saws do the Flinn / Garlick / Pax company also make Axminster's Victor range of saws? The handles are identical, they have folded brass backs and the saws themselves have matching counterparts in the Flinn / Garlick / Pax range. It's a pretty safe bet that these folks made the Victor brand tenon saw I bought from Axminster a few years ago. I know for certain they built the Lynx gents saw I bought when I first started this hobby.

I bought both saws about 2008 I believe. So here is a long termer's perspective on the saws that this company crank out. They work just fine as a saw but that is where my positive sentiment toward them ends. As far as ergonomics go the handle shape on the tenon saw is the worst of any brand I've tried. The only redeeming feature of the handle is the use of slotted drive screw so I can use readily available screw drivers to tighten them which puts them one step ahead of the likes of LN in my book but still well behind Veritas whose dovetail saw I have. The handle on my Veritas has never come loose despite it being one of my most used saws. The Lynx gents saw handle is just a standard turned handle, not much to talk about there, but they covered mine in an extremely thick layer of varnish much of which splashed forward onto the metal parts of the saw and they just let it dry there. Not exactly workmanship to be proud of.

Cosmetically the saw blades and backs have deteriorated terribly over the years compared to my LN and veritas saws. The blades of both were / are covered in some awful varnish or epoxy of some sort which started to show wear spots almost after the first saw cut. Since that started to look very unsightly I tried to remove this coating with all manner of solvent to no avail. They still look unsightly and where that coating has worn now show signs of corrosion despite none of my other saws having corroded. All my equipment is subject to the same anti corrosion regime. I don't know what's wrong with the metal on those two saws. The brass backs too have corroded terribly and though I occassionally try to polish off the corrosion it always comes back within a day or two.

So that's my long term opinion on this manufacturer's saws. To say nothing more of the issues I've experienced their top tier saws are not much cheaper than brands that command a lot more respect and are far more expensive than the Veritas range which to my mind is unbeatable on value.

My apologies for continuing the thread diversion away from the discussion of how to fix a bent Veritas saw.

 

[J_SAMa]

Bump. Updated.