Startrite Table saw buying advice
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Distinterior
Established Member
As well you should,.....as that is actually the adjuster as it has a non concentric bolt through it & when rotated slightly will either tighten or loosen the trunnion mount.
Its accessed by removing the yellow blade angle indicator plate ( item 43 in the exploded diagram).
Edit.
There is no need to remove the cast iron top to make this minor adjustment.
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@Distinterior is absolutely right, I thought I’d detailed how to do it on a previous thread, but if not, this is what I do
1. I check and adjust the two cleats (36 &37) at the top of the saw, these are often not properly aligned with the groove in 40, and if so can cause uneven wear to occur. They cleats should be aligned such that the ‘tongue’ sits square with the groove. Check the groove in 40 for wear, you can sometimes feel a distinct ridge towards the bottom of the groove. This is rare in my experience and only once have I had to skim the back of these too too cleats to compensate for the wear.
Ive once added a shim behind one to adjust the alignment of the blade. I DO NOT recommend this, as the alignment is preset by the factory (that’s what the two roll pins do) such that the fence is deliberately not parallel to the fence, it falls away from the fence at the toe. This is for safety and allows a slight misalignment of the fence each time it’s clamped without it causing the stuff to be trapped and spat out at you at a rapid rate of speed.
2. Remove the indicator plate item 43 to reveal the hole I’ve circled in blue. Adjust the blade tilt to align the screw of the lower cleat (38/39) with it to gain access to adjust it. Adjust the screw slightly, check the wiggle of the trunion by lifting and it at the rear / pushing left and right. Check how difficult it is to tilt the blade. The blade tilt mechanism needs to have need cleaned throughly and given a good coat of white grease or silicone spray. The same should also be done for the cleats and groove before making any adjustments. You can over tighten the adjustment and you feel it on the blade tilt, it becomes stiff.
You can make this adjustment without removing the top, however the groove often needs a good clean out of resin etc. this can cause the blade alignment to go out of whack if enough builds up unevenly.
Now others may have a better way of doing it, which I’d be very keen to hear as every day is school day.
1. I check and adjust the two cleats (36 &37) at the top of the saw, these are often not properly aligned with the groove in 40, and if so can cause uneven wear to occur. They cleats should be aligned such that the ‘tongue’ sits square with the groove. Check the groove in 40 for wear, you can sometimes feel a distinct ridge towards the bottom of the groove. This is rare in my experience and only once have I had to skim the back of these too too cleats to compensate for the wear.
Ive once added a shim behind one to adjust the alignment of the blade. I DO NOT recommend this, as the alignment is preset by the factory (that’s what the two roll pins do) such that the fence is deliberately not parallel to the fence, it falls away from the fence at the toe. This is for safety and allows a slight misalignment of the fence each time it’s clamped without it causing the stuff to be trapped and spat out at you at a rapid rate of speed.
2. Remove the indicator plate item 43 to reveal the hole I’ve circled in blue. Adjust the blade tilt to align the screw of the lower cleat (38/39) with it to gain access to adjust it. Adjust the screw slightly, check the wiggle of the trunion by lifting and it at the rear / pushing left and right. Check how difficult it is to tilt the blade. The blade tilt mechanism needs to have need cleaned throughly and given a good coat of white grease or silicone spray. The same should also be done for the cleats and groove before making any adjustments. You can over tighten the adjustment and you feel it on the blade tilt, it becomes stiff.
You can make this adjustment without removing the top, however the groove often needs a good clean out of resin etc. this can cause the blade alignment to go out of whack if enough builds up unevenly.
Now others may have a better way of doing it, which I’d be very keen to hear as every day is school day.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Cheers for the tips folks, I Had another look a little while ago.
Try as I did, I couldn't see anything obvious which would affect the trunnion skewing...
Had one go at shimming the little block circled out by Deema, but I didn't win the battle
and the long shouldered bolt didn't wish to go home.
Changed tack a little and attempted to shim the whole lot out,
got the top back on and couldn't adjust the slot parallel with the blade at 90.
Perhaps another go at making one for the block might be worth trying yet,
but since that shim made such a difference, seems that flipping that bar for the RK arbor segment
might have been all that was necessary.
I don't see anything which looks badly worn, but couldn't get a proper look underneath, well from looking down anyway.
Seems from what ye are saying there's no adjustability per se,
but a system which accounts for wear.
Had a muck around with this, but seen no change.
Perhaps so though, but only visible when the table is back on again.
From what I'm gathering is adjust tight enough that there's no slop, but free enough to be able move well.
Hoping the little change with the flat bar might have sorted it.
Thanks folks
Tom
Try as I did, I couldn't see anything obvious which would affect the trunnion skewing...
Had one go at shimming the little block circled out by Deema, but I didn't win the battle
and the long shouldered bolt didn't wish to go home.
Changed tack a little and attempted to shim the whole lot out,
got the top back on and couldn't adjust the slot parallel with the blade at 90.
Perhaps another go at making one for the block might be worth trying yet,
but since that shim made such a difference, seems that flipping that bar for the RK arbor segment
might have been all that was necessary.
I don't see anything which looks badly worn, but couldn't get a proper look underneath, well from looking down anyway.
Seems from what ye are saying there's no adjustability per se,
but a system which accounts for wear.
Had a muck around with this, but seen no change.
Perhaps so though, but only visible when the table is back on again.
From what I'm gathering is adjust tight enough that there's no slop, but free enough to be able move well.
Hoping the little change with the flat bar might have sorted it.
Thanks folks
Tom
Learnt just last week that a colleague is scaling back his work and selling off his machines. The saw bench was mentioned, I could try and get a picky?
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Here's a more in depth look at the adjustment for ye.
I'm not sure what it was like before, but everything seemed snug to me.
Seems something might have changed, dunno, but seemed to be a fair bit more hassle than I remember to get the blade parallel at 90.
Perhaps it was the floor, perhaps it was my wrangling of the innards, perhaps there's a sequence,
I believe I tried all the tricks twice, and not settled on any particular method, but if I were to guess, perhaps better to progressively start with slightly snugging the cabinet before the casting section, in a diagonal fashion.
It might be that flipping this bar which caused that either, I don't get the impression it was originally like that, nor would the riving knife be able to raise one or two mm, or whatever it was,
it's less now.
Not checked how things are in regards to being parallel at 45 yet, as I was happy enough getting it
sorted the other way.
Hopefully I can get onto sorting the fence now.
I'm not sure what it was like before, but everything seemed snug to me.
Seems something might have changed, dunno, but seemed to be a fair bit more hassle than I remember to get the blade parallel at 90.
Perhaps it was the floor, perhaps it was my wrangling of the innards, perhaps there's a sequence,
I believe I tried all the tricks twice, and not settled on any particular method, but if I were to guess, perhaps better to progressively start with slightly snugging the cabinet before the casting section, in a diagonal fashion.
It might be that flipping this bar which caused that either, I don't get the impression it was originally like that, nor would the riving knife be able to raise one or two mm, or whatever it was,
it's less now.
Not checked how things are in regards to being parallel at 45 yet, as I was happy enough getting it
sorted the other way.
Hopefully I can get onto sorting the fence now.
Distinterior
Established Member
That rectangular bar does look the correct shape and should have a kink in each end......Turning it over shouldn't make any difference as it will fit either way, as you have found out.
Having said that, if there is wear in the Oilite bearings that are a push fit into each end of that bar, this may introduce a problem with slop and therefore alignment issues.
With all due respect Ttrees,...The first thing I would do if I was you, was to give the whole thing a really good clean and at least, a good blow out with an airline......Trying to check & make fine adjustments with all that c r a p & debris over all the components is going to be a bit of an uphill battle....!
Having said that, if there is wear in the Oilite bearings that are a push fit into each end of that bar, this may introduce a problem with slop and therefore alignment issues.
With all due respect Ttrees,...The first thing I would do if I was you, was to give the whole thing a really good clean and at least, a good blow out with an airline......Trying to check & make fine adjustments with all that c r a p & debris over all the components is going to be a bit of an uphill battle....!
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Hi Tom,
If the saw is moving when tilted it’s due to either it not being machined correctly or more likely something is loose.
First off, the two roll pins and all the bolts securing the plate (1) to the table top must be in place and secure when you check it. The bolts holding the plate to the casing must also be in place to increase stiffness. Now, if you have movement it’s usually the three cleats. The upper cleats need to be true to the slot, the lower cleat when you rotate the bolt is pushed further into the groove tightening the mechanism up. (I haven’t had to adjust many, but I’ve found you can lock the system solid by turning it if it isn’t too worn) You don’t need much movement to attain the sort of error you’re talking about, there is a lot of wiggle in the arrangement so it won’t ‘feel’ loose.
The adjustment can be worn out, and this might be the problem. If it isn’t, the chance is that the quadrant might be machined slight out, or it’s been used to cut say just 30 degrees a lot of times wearing the quadrant unevenly.
If the saw is moving when tilted it’s due to either it not being machined correctly or more likely something is loose.
First off, the two roll pins and all the bolts securing the plate (1) to the table top must be in place and secure when you check it. The bolts holding the plate to the casing must also be in place to increase stiffness. Now, if you have movement it’s usually the three cleats. The upper cleats need to be true to the slot, the lower cleat when you rotate the bolt is pushed further into the groove tightening the mechanism up. (I haven’t had to adjust many, but I’ve found you can lock the system solid by turning it if it isn’t too worn) You don’t need much movement to attain the sort of error you’re talking about, there is a lot of wiggle in the arrangement so it won’t ‘feel’ loose.
The adjustment can be worn out, and this might be the problem. If it isn’t, the chance is that the quadrant might be machined slight out, or it’s been used to cut say just 30 degrees a lot of times wearing the quadrant unevenly.
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Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Not got around to checking if it did anything, but I should mention either end has a different size hole, and it was offset, so not a case of things canceling out.
Might have another clean out of this machine when I get a proper vacuum and a very nice long reach plastic handled radiator paint brush, as I've got no airlines in my workshop.
Must look that up to have an idea of what they are, cheers.
@deema not getting the impression something is loose, but might look up what the olite bearings do.
I forgot to add I didn't loosen up the cabinet casting bolts whilst doing any of this, (part 1)
perhaps that is why I didn't notice any movement.
Hopefully all will be well now, and if not, perhaps rinse and repeat, but with part 1 included.
Might even look for a small paint brush whilst I'm at it
Tom
Distinterior
Established Member
.
According to the exploded diagram for a 175/275 saw, the Oilite bearings and corresponding pivot pins are the same part numbers for both ends of that bar......so I dont know why yours would be different...?!?
Maybe, a previous owner has modified it for some unknown reason? Certainly worth looking into though.....
According to the exploded diagram for a 175/275 saw, the Oilite bearings and corresponding pivot pins are the same part numbers for both ends of that bar......so I dont know why yours would be different...?!?
Maybe, a previous owner has modified it for some unknown reason? Certainly worth looking into though.....
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Had another few rounds yesterday, and still none the wiser.
Now I get what an olite bearing is, I thought it was a bodge until I took most of the crud off.
Not sure if the riving knife bracket is free to pivot once that bar is removed, guess so.
Thanks to your advice guys, I was able to get a shim installed without damage, ala loosening the bottom tooth tab thingy,
and I seemingly wasn't able to get the blade square to the slot,
so at least I could try some other stuff with the profiled flat bar for the time being.
Getting tired now, so had to make things easier
I didn't mention a likely cause for this upset is whatever happened to the crank,
(not sure which one, I or someone else may have swapped them over.
The rise and fall is a bit stiff, compared to the tilting adjustment, but I guess tis normal ?
Perhaps I might have another go later on, but I honestly think I may have exhausted what little chance of fixing things with shims.
Pondered for a bit, and it never occurred to me to check the slots were actually parallel!
Around 0.3mm of discrepancy, and I measured the blade again, and it looks more like twice that at the very least.
With defeat partially accepted for the day, I had a look at me fence.
None the wiser as to why it was slipping, and not a budge out of it either.
Parts seem all there... the only thing I can think of is that I reformed the thread again by mucking around trying to dismantle it.
I'll leave that yet, as I would like to try and see if I can sort out the blade at 45,
or indeed, whatever tilted angle, as I still seen the same error.
Nothing jumping, nor skewing when tilting, at a glance, so doesn't seem like anything is loose to me.
Anyone willing to have a guess something might be worth looking at.
Seems like it might be worth a try, seeing if something's obvious with a bit of persuasion
by way of leverage, fully assembled that is, and a long peek through the letterbox.
Thanks folks
Tom
Now I get what an olite bearing is, I thought it was a bodge until I took most of the crud off.
Not sure if the riving knife bracket is free to pivot once that bar is removed, guess so.
Thanks to your advice guys, I was able to get a shim installed without damage, ala loosening the bottom tooth tab thingy,
and I seemingly wasn't able to get the blade square to the slot,
so at least I could try some other stuff with the profiled flat bar for the time being.
Getting tired now, so had to make things easier
I didn't mention a likely cause for this upset is whatever happened to the crank,
(not sure which one, I or someone else may have swapped them over.
The rise and fall is a bit stiff, compared to the tilting adjustment, but I guess tis normal ?
Perhaps I might have another go later on, but I honestly think I may have exhausted what little chance of fixing things with shims.
Pondered for a bit, and it never occurred to me to check the slots were actually parallel!
Around 0.3mm of discrepancy, and I measured the blade again, and it looks more like twice that at the very least.
With defeat partially accepted for the day, I had a look at me fence.
None the wiser as to why it was slipping, and not a budge out of it either.
Parts seem all there... the only thing I can think of is that I reformed the thread again by mucking around trying to dismantle it.
I'll leave that yet, as I would like to try and see if I can sort out the blade at 45,
or indeed, whatever tilted angle, as I still seen the same error.
Nothing jumping, nor skewing when tilting, at a glance, so doesn't seem like anything is loose to me.
Anyone willing to have a guess something might be worth looking at.
Seems like it might be worth a try, seeing if something's obvious with a bit of persuasion
by way of leverage, fully assembled that is, and a long peek through the letterbox.
Thanks folks
Tom
Hi Tom
Looking at the last picture you posted looking down on the quadrant, have you polished up the bottom of the V groove, or are the cleats running on the bottom. If it’s the latter, the cleats or groove are worn and they need some work. The cleats far as I know should not touch the bottom, they should ride on the cheeks of the groove, which is what keeps everything ‘stiff’ and aligned. Once they’ve worn so they touch the bottom the whole arrangement will move and you get the phenomenon you are seeing.
Looking at the last picture you posted looking down on the quadrant, have you polished up the bottom of the V groove, or are the cleats running on the bottom. If it’s the latter, the cleats or groove are worn and they need some work. The cleats far as I know should not touch the bottom, they should ride on the cheeks of the groove, which is what keeps everything ‘stiff’ and aligned. Once they’ve worn so they touch the bottom the whole arrangement will move and you get the phenomenon you are seeing.
Just reread the thread, can you confirm that when the saw is at 90 degrees it’s actually parallel to the slot? If not, by how much is it out?
Im also wondered what the cut quality is like? I ask because it’s just a guess, I think it might not be great, assuming you have a top class blade in it.…..not a trend or any of the other DIY grade saws, but a professional grade that’s sharp. If it’s not great it’s an indicator that something is moving. Have you replaced the bearing in the spindle? The amount of error you’re talking about is actually very small. The saw has clearly earned its supper if the bushes need replacing, and swapping the bearings is always what we do with any saw, they wear and become ‘sloppy’.
The other quick test to do is measure the error when tilted with the motor taken off, I suspect the error you see will be far less. This then confirms that something is worn / loose. There are basically three places it could be. The spindle bearings / arrangement, the quadrant and the pivot.
Im not sure if you were able to adjust the lower cleat? If you did, did it make any difference?
Im also wondered what the cut quality is like? I ask because it’s just a guess, I think it might not be great, assuming you have a top class blade in it.…..not a trend or any of the other DIY grade saws, but a professional grade that’s sharp. If it’s not great it’s an indicator that something is moving. Have you replaced the bearing in the spindle? The amount of error you’re talking about is actually very small. The saw has clearly earned its supper if the bushes need replacing, and swapping the bearings is always what we do with any saw, they wear and become ‘sloppy’.
The other quick test to do is measure the error when tilted with the motor taken off, I suspect the error you see will be far less. This then confirms that something is worn / loose. There are basically three places it could be. The spindle bearings / arrangement, the quadrant and the pivot.
Im not sure if you were able to adjust the lower cleat? If you did, did it make any difference?
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
There appears to be no wear in that regards Deema.
The white lithium grease remains on the bottom of the tracks.
I've been doing the plus minus thing, to a better standard than what the feelers would read.
Seems like a real good blade, no runout from it what I can see, consistent readings throughout,
Cuts well, that is when the fence stays put, lol.
No slop assembled, went at it with a bit of timber to see if I could budge it in any direction, no chance.
Decided to see if any play might become evident, and removed the cleat with the cintered or olite bearing, and bloomin lost the wee circlip again, I heard it go down the ramp and basically at my feet, going bananas trying to find it.
Nothing worse than coming out from the shed, worse off than when ya went in
As to the error being very small, I want to spiff up the machine with abutments and such,
i.e overhead guard, a shaw guard system, outfeed setup, and some fence additions,
so would like to get this out of the way first.
Thanks for your help
Tom
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
Try as I did, I couldn't find that circlip, so had a rummage through the biscuit tin, and thankfully found three imperial threaded bed bolts.
The olite bearing was worn anyway, so gave it a tickle with a file, and made a little stainless sleeve
So best to use a magnet (pictured below) at the very least...
Turned out the flat head bolt made it very apparent, that the little block with the allen key
needed adjustment.
Couldn't spot anything obstructive, loose, or fouling from underneath,
Yes I certainly need to get some new belts for this machine
Photo of the v groove for Deema, with the grease still remaining.
Gave it a wiggle with no success
Messed about some more and was finding real issues with the table deciding to choose
where it wanted to go, perhaps that was from my shimming shenanigans earlier on.
Was trying multiple methods to get the blade aligned where I wanted, still not sure TBH,
but a bit of timber levering whilst tightening the bolts might be a good idea.
Talking about bolts, might as well mention these seem quite soft compared to what I've ever encountered, but I could understand if it were just wear and tear which made them that soft.
Better than nuffin
I'd love to know if the trunnion is parallel on others machines.
It's not quite the case with mine
More wrangling with a bit of pipe for my forearm seemed to help, just patiently comfortably wiggling seemed to help a little.
During that, I was noting it was settling again whilst tilting 45 back to 90 again.
Might be pushing my luck expecting it to get closer than below.
Worth a test cut at the very least I suppose.
Now to focus on some more stuff for making the machine safe.
Had a glance at my fence to see why it was becoming loose, nothing apparent,
and quite baffling really.
Rock solid now, nearly reassuringly so, but it was working just as well before it decided to become
loose before, (that's loose like the clamp is undone)
The olite bearing was worn anyway, so gave it a tickle with a file, and made a little stainless sleeve
So best to use a magnet (pictured below) at the very least...
Turned out the flat head bolt made it very apparent, that the little block with the allen key
needed adjustment.
Couldn't spot anything obstructive, loose, or fouling from underneath,
Yes I certainly need to get some new belts for this machine
Photo of the v groove for Deema, with the grease still remaining.
Gave it a wiggle with no success
Messed about some more and was finding real issues with the table deciding to choose
where it wanted to go, perhaps that was from my shimming shenanigans earlier on.
Was trying multiple methods to get the blade aligned where I wanted, still not sure TBH,
but a bit of timber levering whilst tightening the bolts might be a good idea.
Talking about bolts, might as well mention these seem quite soft compared to what I've ever encountered, but I could understand if it were just wear and tear which made them that soft.
Better than nuffin
I'd love to know if the trunnion is parallel on others machines.
It's not quite the case with mine
More wrangling with a bit of pipe for my forearm seemed to help, just patiently comfortably wiggling seemed to help a little.
During that, I was noting it was settling again whilst tilting 45 back to 90 again.
Might be pushing my luck expecting it to get closer than below.
Worth a test cut at the very least I suppose.
Now to focus on some more stuff for making the machine safe.
Had a glance at my fence to see why it was becoming loose, nothing apparent,
and quite baffling really.
Rock solid now, nearly reassuringly so, but it was working just as well before it decided to become
loose before, (that's loose like the clamp is undone)
Ttrees
Iroko loco!
I'd like to know if something might become apparent by disassembly,
seems I'd need to knock a pin out from the claw, though closer inspection needed.
Hoping the crud left on, just might give some visual aid?
Perhaps something to do with these fingers?
Not finished going through all the Startrite threads yet, so might just leave things be until then.
I'd like to make a slip on fence for this saw, possibly double sided, with a cleat to make more space for pushsticks whilst using a crown guard.
Say something ala Steve Maskery
Not sure what height I want that cleat though, not to mention what length of stuff I'm after...
Roy Sutton suggested at the time, 50mm beyond the first tooth.
Suppose I could make full length and lop a bit off if necessary.
Might have to dismantle the fence in order to utilize both faces of the wrap around job,
Not really thought much into it, and would rather try and attain a more suitable material than
what I've got here, so all that might be dependent.
Thinking I'd like to utilize a router table on the RHS of the saw, but that's down the road yet.
I reckon some youtubing might be necessary, should I come across many others with the same setup, who don't just use it for holding pencils and tape measure.
Suppose that might be a thread of its own, which I might start should I get some fancy material.
Cheers
Tom
seems I'd need to knock a pin out from the claw, though closer inspection needed.
Hoping the crud left on, just might give some visual aid?
Perhaps something to do with these fingers?
Not finished going through all the Startrite threads yet, so might just leave things be until then.
I'd like to make a slip on fence for this saw, possibly double sided, with a cleat to make more space for pushsticks whilst using a crown guard.
Say something ala Steve Maskery
Not sure what height I want that cleat though, not to mention what length of stuff I'm after...
Roy Sutton suggested at the time, 50mm beyond the first tooth.
Suppose I could make full length and lop a bit off if necessary.
Might have to dismantle the fence in order to utilize both faces of the wrap around job,
Not really thought much into it, and would rather try and attain a more suitable material than
what I've got here, so all that might be dependent.
Thinking I'd like to utilize a router table on the RHS of the saw, but that's down the road yet.
I reckon some youtubing might be necessary, should I come across many others with the same setup, who don't just use it for holding pencils and tape measure.
Suppose that might be a thread of its own, which I might start should I get some fancy material.
Cheers
Tom
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