Startrite Table saw buying advice

[littlejohn]

Hi all

I’m a strictly amateur and looking to get a table saw - I want something suitable for furniture making, so I guess I’m prioritising repeatable fine accuracy over bulk work, but I don't really know where to start in finding something suitable. Being on a budget (aren’t we all ! ) it seems that looking for older equipment that’s well engineered is the way to go. My workshop is a barn so I’m lucky in that don’t have to worry about space.

There’s a start rite saw I’m interested in, it looks clean and tidy and the seller says that he "can't see model No however Serial No starts with 175, Rating is 1.5Kw and bottom of the plate states that no blade under 170mm is to be fitted"

It looks like a lot of people here have start rite saws and they’re generally well respected, are there things to look out for? Does it sound like it would be a good fit for what Im trying to do? I will have to do a 3 phase to single phase conversion so have to factor that into the cost, but then it looks like I'd have to do that for many decent saw anyway.

Thanks
John

 

[Ttrees]

Is it the 145 machine, or the 275?
I have a 3 phase 275, which has a 3hp motor on it usually, its got a Chinese VFD hooked up to it, and runs well from a 13a plug.
You say you have the space and see the cost savings of three phase, so I would suggest you get the 275 with 3hp motor.
Why not look for the DS 275 model, which has a sliding table aswell for the same money, since your not opposed to the VFD route.
Tom

 

[sploo]

The Startrite 175 and 275 are fine saws; indeed they're actually the same thing (the 175 came with a 10" blade and a smaller motor, but it's no problem to swap or replace the motor and/or use different sized blades).

As Ttrees has mentioned, the DS versions have a sliding table. However, they do tend to command significantly higher prices, and in my experience unless you're doing a lot of cross cuts of long stock it may not be that useful. Also, the standard throw is only about 30cm (though can be extended up to 60cm) so it's not going to do big panels either.

If the machine you're looking at has a 1.5kW 3-phase motor then a VFD will run it fine - especially as you can program a gentle ramp up/down so nothing jerks into life.

Things to watch for: the universal joints can get damaged if the Trunnion Nut has corroded/stuck (such that it doesn't pivot when the blade is tilted).

They're not too bad to strip down and service (I've done a couple over the years). It'll take a few days, but breaking it down and installing new bearings is a pretty cheap job (as well as a fresh pair of belts).

Dust extraction isn't great on them, and the chassis body is sheet metal (so likes to be bolted onto the floor or a stand for rigidity).

With decent blades and a bit of fettling you can definitely get cross cuts that require no finishing, and they'll chomp through deep rip jobs with ease.

The spindle is 5/8" BTW, but you can readily get adaptors to use 30mm bore blades.

For spares see http://www.altsawsandspares.co.uk/ and the manual is here: http://www.sharkbandsawblades.co.uk/dow ... E%20MW.pdf

 

[littlejohn]

Great, thank you both; I've just come across a 275 so I'm going to take a look at that one too. I've put this off for years, it's going to feel like a real upgrade

 

[woodbloke66]

Hi all

I’m a strictly amateur and looking to get a table saw - I want something suitable for furniture making, so I guess I’m prioritising repeatable fine accuracy over bulk work....
Thanks
John

Just to throw a Spanniard in the works; have you considered whether a tablesaur is the right type of saw, or would a bandsaw be better? It does depend on what sort of work you do; long straight cuts in boards of one sort or another are easiest on a tablesaur (though the same can be accomplished these days with a 'Parf' table and tracksaw). This piece from Matt Estlea (who recently joined UKW) is well worth spending ten minutes to read and if you have a look at his workshop you'll see it's superbly kitted out...but no tablesaw. All of the pieces below in my Sigblock were made without using a tablesaw - Rob

 

[sploo]

Great, thank you both; I've just come across a 275 so I'm going to take a look at that one too. I've put this off for years, it's going to feel like a real upgrade

No worries. Note that if it's a 275 with a 1.5kW motor it's basically no different from the 175 (other than the serial number!).

As far as I know, the very early models have round hand wheels, and all the rest have a straight section with two black knobs.

Sometime (after 1974) they gained a small metal shield inside, that protects one of the threaded rods from debris from the blade.

The tension on the locking level for the fence can be adjusted, so just choose the saw that looks in best condition and has a good price - don't worry about it being a 175 or 275.

Oh, and the cast iron top can be sanded and polished nicely, so they do scrub up nice.

 

[fearless_chef]

Is it the 145 machine, or the 275?
I have a 3 phase 275, which has a 3hp motor on it usually, its got a Chinese VFD hooked up to it, and runs well from a 13a plug.
You say you have the space and see the cost savings of three phase, so I would suggest you get the 275 with 3hp motor.
Why not look for the DS 275 model, which has a sliding table aswell for the same money, since your not opposed to the VFD route.
Tom

I've recently restored a 145 and just about to purchase my vfd to sort out getting it fired up, it states on the motor 400v but most vfd I can see state 230 single phase to 230 3 phase will it just work as is or do I need to check start / delta wiring?

 

[eribaMotters]

I'd have preferred a 275 when I bought a 175 about 25 years ago. As others have said theses machines are identical apart from the motor. On mine the bars and spacing blocks were missing so I made some. The fence was damaged so I fixed it. I then moved the riving knife back, fitted a couple of new toothed belts and bought 12" thin kerf blades that offer less cutting resistance to compensate for the lower HP motor. Yes, if you push hard on a 3 1/2" cut it will slow a little. I've treated my saw correctly over the years and the only time it's objected is after many feet of heavy ripping when the thermal trip cuts the power. A few minutes later it's back to normal.
The Startrite is a nice solid saw that will offer years of good service with little maintenance and continue making accurate cuts.

Colin

 

[deema]

I would have a look out for the following things:
1 Using a straight edge, check that the table is flat particularly around the blade where the wood passes around the blade. A bit of dish is OK and to be expected, but nothing excessive.
2. Check that the claw on the rear of the fence isn’t broken. They are cast iron and if the fence is dropped they can and do break. If it’s broken, walk away, they are dangerous without the full hook profile.
3. Check the micro adjust cog, it’s inside the fence casting, so take off the fence, turn it upside down and have a look. If it’s worn they wont adjust the fence properly. You can buy new ones, but they are expensive!
4 Check the bars that the fence rise on are straight and true, if not it can be dangerous as the fence won’t hold its position with respect to the blade at all positions.
5. Check that the rise and fall and the tilt work properly.
7.Put a coin on the table top on its edge, start and stop the saw a few times. If it falls over it could be the bearings are worn.
8. Remove the belts and grab hold of the spindle and give it a good tug up and down. If you feel any movement the bearings or worse need attention. Do the same with the pulley on the motor. (disconnect the saw from the power when doing this).
9. Check the spindle thread and nut for damage / wear. Spares are available but expensive.
10. Check the flange of the spindle for dents / damage. Spares are available but expensive
11. Check the removable flange plate for dents / damage. Spares are available but expensive.
12. Check the riving knife is flat and not bent. Again spares are available.
13, Make sure it has a properly fitting crown guard, preferably an original one that hasnt been chewed up by the blade. Originals are available but very very expensive.
14. With a straight edge check the fence is actually straight. Remove any sacrificial fence before doing this.
15. Check the saw spindle isn’t broken where the bar to lock it goes through. There is a hole in the table that the bar inserts through. They are often broken.
16. Check that it has the two fixed bars that bolt into the ends of the bars that the fence slide on. They are important for keeping the fence true.
17. Start it up and take a few test cuts.
18. If the owner doesn’t want you to do a thorough inspection / checks, walk away they probably have something to hide!


Startrites are brilliant saws, well built and last for generations. Good luck.

A Startrite 175 will not take the same blade size as a 275, they are not identical.

 

[eribaMotters]

I am running my 175 with 305mm blades.
The riving knife mount can be moved back easily to allow the upsize from a 10"/250mm blade.
The rise and fall travel on the blade allows a 305mm blade to sit safely below the table.

Colin

 

[Ttrees]

I've recently restored a 145 and just about to purchase my vfd to sort out getting it fired up, it states on the motor 400v but most vfd I can see state 230 single phase to 230 3 phase will it just work as is or do I need to check start / delta wiring?

Did you open the panel for the motor terminals?
There maybe the six terminals and an earth and even possibly schematics on the lid.
I can't say if a fixed star wound 380/400v motor looks the same, cuz I never seen one
in the flesh, but the fixed star wound motors ones Ive seen online (here mainly)
haven't have any extra connections.
High voltage "star" (Y), and low voltage "delta" (Triangle)
is configured with three straps joining the terminals.

If it doesn't look something like this, then I believe you have two options.
Dig out the "star point" and convert motor to a dual voltage one,
or buy a more expensive VFD which is 240v IN and 380 OUT
(gotta watch that in the fine print)
And watch out if just going for the cheapest one you can find, it may not be what you think it is.
I haven't seen anyone here buying one of those, and Myfordman (Bob's, whose fascinating induction motor document you need to go through)
You know the place, it's linked in the bottom of 9 fingers's posts.

is highly skeptical as are others of the cheapie 380v out VFD/inverters.
Some being skeptical or critical or the 240v out, more common models.

 

[Ttrees]

I would have a look out for the following things:
1 Using a straight edge, check that the table is flat particularly around the blade where the wood passes around the blade. A bit of dish is OK and to be expected, but nothing excessive.
2. Check that the claw on the rear of the fence isn’t broken. They are cast iron and if the fence is dropped they can and do break. If it’s broken, walk away, they are dangerous without the full hook profile.
3. Check the micro adjust cog, it’s inside the fence casting, so take off the fence, turn it upside down and have a look. If it’s worn they wont adjust the fence properly. You can buy new ones, but they are expensive!
4 Check the bars that the fence rise on are straight and true, if not it can be dangerous as the fence won’t hold its position with respect to the blade at all positions.
5. Check that the rise and fall and the tilt work properly.
7.Put a coin on the table top on its edge, start and stop the saw a few times. If it falls over it could be the bearings are worn.
8. Remove the belts and grab hold of the spindle and give it a good tug up and down. If you feel any movement the bearings or wires need attention. Do the same with the pulley on the motor. (disconnect the saw from the power when doing this).
9. Check the spindle thread and nut for damage / wear. Spares are available but expensive.
10. Check the flange of the spindle for dents / damage. Spares are available but expensive
11. Check the removable flange plate for dents / damage. Spares are available but expensive.
12. Check the riving knife is flat and not bent. Again spares are available.
13, Make sure it has a properly fitting crown guard, preferably an original one that hasnt been chewed up by the blade. Originals are available but very very expensive.
14. With a straight edge check the fence is actually straight. Remove any sacrificial fence before doing this.
15. Check the saw spindle isn’t broken where the bar to lock it goes through. There is a hole in the table that the bar inserts through. They are often broken.
16. Check that it has the two fixed bars that bolt into the ends of the bars that the fence slide on. They are important for keeping the fence true.
17. Start it up and take a few test cuts.
18. If the owner doesn’t want you to do a thorough inspection / checks, walk away they probably have something to hide!


Startrites are brilliant saws, well built and last for generations. Good luck.

A Startrite 175 will not take the same blade size as a 275, they are not identical.

A rather good write up, and I'm gonna go over some things on this list again.
One could add to that, a good test is bringing a combi square with you, and checking the blade is parallel with the mitre slot, and fence being true.
That way you can tilt the blade fully and inspect if it stays true with the fence.
I think my goes a bit off when tilted, and not sought to see if there is a fix for this yet.

Tom

 

[deema]

A rather good write up, and I'm gonna go over some things on this list again.
One could add to that, a good test is bringing a combi square with you, and checking the blade is parallel with the mitre slot, and fence being true.
That way you can tilt the blade fully and inspect if it stays true with the fence.
I think my goes a bit off when tilted, and not sought to see if there is a fix for this yet.

Tom

If it does go out when tilted, it’s usually the three ‘ toggle clips’ that the saw hangs on that just need tightening up. You have to take the top off and a bit of disassembly to get at them. They wear and just need adjusting (Rotating slightly)

 

[Ttrees]

@deema that's just made my day!

Hasn't sunken in yet, but very pleased to know it's not gonna be a divil of a job when it does get another round of fettling.
Many thanks
Tom

 

[fearless_chef]

Did you open the panel for the motor terminals?
There maybe the six terminals and an earth and even possibly schematics on the lid.
I can't say if a fixed star wound 380/400v motor looks the same, cuz I never seen one
in the flesh, but the fixed star wound motors ones Ive seen online (here mainly)
haven't have any extra connections.
High voltage "star" (Y), and low voltage "delta" (Triangle)
is configured with three straps joining the terminals.

If it doesn't look something like this, then I believe you have two options.
Dig out the "star point" and convert motor to a dual voltage one,
or buy a more expensive VFD which is 240v IN and 380 OUT
(gotta watch that in the fine print)
And watch out if just going for the cheapest one you can find, it may not be what you think it is.
I haven't seen anyone here buying one of those, and Myfordman (Bob's, whose fascinating induction motor document you need to go through)
You know the place, it's linked in the bottom of 9 fingers's posts.

is highly skeptical as are others of the cheapie 380v out VFD/inverters.
Some being skeptical or critical or the 240v out, more common models.






View attachment 124571
View attachment 124570

I opened up the cable box on motor and after removing a shovel full of sawdust I have indeed found a wiring diagram on the lid with a lower power mode. sometimes its easy to get stuck and confused with info you find online and companies scaremongering. what I love about forums like this is you get no nonsense responses, yes granted still only peoples opinions but like minded people

 

[Ttrees]

I had the same deal with the dust which was basically like a casting, which would have made a good photo.
Can't remember if I took the end bells off to check, but have done so on other motors and found no sawdust.
Might certainly be worth giving the bearings a whirl, should the motor be out of the machine.

Now what VFD to buy, should you be on a shoestring or go by Hitachi manual specs for things, is up to you.
I have a few cheapies, and destroyed one by bogging my bandsaw down.

Just some food for thought should heavy work be foreseen
The Hitachi way of thinking, probably the same as others who build fancy VFD's
is rating the drive to cope with double the amperage, or something along those lines.
Worth noting if heavy work is foreseen, should the motor might be on the small side
and the capacity of the machine decent.

Hopefully you find Bob's induction motor document, beneath his signature.... if you can find out
where the hell "the other place" is, as I don't believe were allowed mention

Good luck
Tom

 

[fearless_chef]

I had the same deal with the dust which was basically like a casting, which would have made a good photo.
Can't remember if I took the end bells off to check, but have done so on other motors and found no sawdust.
Might certainly be worth giving the bearings a whirl, should the motor be out of the machine.

Now what VFD to buy, should you be on a shoestring or go by Hitachi manual specs for things, is up to you.
I have a few cheapies, and destroyed one by bogging my bandsaw down.

Just some food for thought should heavy work be foreseen
The Hitachi way of thinking, probably the same as others who build fancy VFD's
is rating the drive to cope with double the amperage, or something along those lines.
Worth noting if heavy work is foreseen, should the motor might be on the small side
and the capacity of the machine decent.

Hopefully you find Bob's induction motor document, beneath his signature.... if you can find out
where the hell "the other place" is, as I don't believe were allowed mention

Good luck
Tom

I'm very much a weekend hobbyist with 3 young kids as such my budget is minimal so I've gone the cheap route, I dont intend to do anything particularly heavy on this more just for repeatable accurate cuts. I have found my self wandering down a rabbit hole. I needed to replace the belts and struggled doing it in situ, so I removed the motor, when the motor is out you may aswell open the case, clear out all the dust and check the bearings. I've now replaced the bearings, shot blasted the motor casing and re painted it. now I'm looking at the blade height / tilt mechanism thinking whilst I've got access to it do I do a full strip down shot blast and chemical black all the threads..

 

[Jameshow]

Sorry to thread hi jack

What's the spec of the Startrite 135?

Is it just as good as it's big brothers.

Seen one near me...

Cheers James

 

[Ttrees]

Done some checks of my machine this evening,
T'was my fence which was badly out, which needs sorting, but thought worth improving
the accuracy of the trunnion first, as the blade is 0.5mm out at 45 in relation to the slot.

Also had a look at why my riving knife bracket was able to lift up a mm or two.
Needed an allen key to tighten up..

Still loose, but seems flipping the flat bar tightened up,
(that's after finding the wee circlip again) and not much budging at all now.
Not sure if there's meant to be a slight s profile to it?

Now onto the part which @deema mentioned...
Don't see anything loose, and I haven't figured out how it's adjustable?
Perhaps the expectation was to see something loose, but looks tight to me.
Do I need to shim it where it needs to be?

Thanks

Tom

 

[SLM]

The Startrite 175 and 275 are fine saws; indeed they're actually the same thing (the 175 came with a 10" blade and a smaller motor, but it's no problem to swap or replace the motor and/or use different sized blades).

As Ttrees has mentioned, the DS versions have a sliding table. However, they do tend to command significantly higher prices, and in my experience unless you're doing a lot of cross cuts of long stock it may not be that useful. Also, the standard throw is only about 30cm (though can be extended up to 60cm) so it's not going to do big panels either.

If the machine you're looking at has a 1.5kW 3-phase motor then a VFD will run it fine - especially as you can program a gentle ramp up/down so nothing jerks into life.

Things to watch for: the universal joints can get damaged if the Trunnion Nut has corroded/stuck (such that it doesn't pivot when the blade is tilted).

They're not too bad to strip down and service (I've done a couple over the years). It'll take a few days, but breaking it down and installing new bearings is a pretty cheap job (as well as a fresh pair of belts).

Dust extraction isn't great on them, and the chassis body is sheet metal (so likes to be bolted onto the floor or a stand for rigidity).

With decent blades and a bit of fettling you can definitely get cross cuts that require no finishing, and they'll chomp through deep rip jobs with ease.

The spindle is 5/8" BTW, but you can readily get adaptors to use 30mm bore blades.

For spares see ALT Saws and Spares - Startrite Machines Specialists and the manual is here: http://www.sharkbandsawblades.co.uk/dow ... E%20MW.pdf

Not all parts are proprietary. The universal joints, in particular, are better sourced elsewhere; for half the price of an original, I got a better quality replacement from RS.

Deema makes a typically comprehensive summary of what to look for. However, I wouldn’t be as quick as he, to walk away over issues with the fence; if the price is right, the fence can easily be replaced with an aftermarket one.