Startrite / Robland Combination Saw / Planer / Spindle molder - 3 Phase not starting.......any ideas?

[illumaphonium]

Hi Guys....

So I recently bought one of these Startrite / Robland Combination machines (pretty certain its 2.2Kw per motor) Mechanically it all seems ok, the motors all turn etc. I did see all 3 motors running when I bought it. When I connect it to the 3 Phase supply now, select a mode and hit start, all I get is the click from the relay and either a 50Hz hum or it trips the 16A breaker.... its has also occasionally tripped the main breaker on the 3 phase panel - (prob 63A) which worries me a bit!

There's a couple of latching emergency stops buttons that have been added that dont seem to be stuck down.

I've been struggling with this for several weeks now. It's my only 3 phase machine so a bit new to the concept. I feel like it's something really simple going on but I cant work out what..

Any ideas?

Much appreciated

 

[flh801978]

Can you turn all the motors by hand? Are any stuck?
The click from the start contactor suggests that you are ok to run
But humming and overloads/breakers tripping suggests mechanical issues
Are you sure you have a ll 3 phases present and correct because a missing phase will hum and trip the breakers…

 

[peter-harrison]

I have had problems in the past with the way the phases are wired up- in that case this caused the motor to run backwards. Could your problem be something similar?

 

[ChaiLatte]

I have had problems in the past with the way the phases are wired up- in that case this caused the motor to run backwards.

That is the easiest thing to try as a first diagnosis. Reverse any two the the phases and try again. It will either run or it won't.

 

[highwood122]

mines got a micro switch on the saw guard under the table

 

[Johnwa]

It sounds as though you could be losing a phase. If the main contactor is operating your best option is to unplug/disconnect from your mains supply, remove the control panel/starter cover and physically check the wiring coming in to the machine, make sure that all wires are connected and tight. Then move across to the main contactor and check all wires and connections on the top and bottom of the contactor. If these are all present and tight I suggest you get a spark in, not a domestic electrician but a maintenance electrician that specialises on machine repairs, he'll get it sorted while you're thinking about it and you'll know the machine is safe when he's finished. You're on to high voltages here, if you dont know what you're doing, don't mess.
PS a wiring diagram would help.

 

[illumaphonium]

Thanks (all) for your thoughts. I'll get onto it. I'm slowed down by having to borrow three phase from a neighbouring unit - my intention in the short term was to run the machine from a 3ph convertor (from 32A 240v) until I get 3Ph connected. So I may be a little slow in solving this. 415v scares me also. I do have the wiring diagrams which is a bonus....

 

[Johnwa]

Put your wiring diagrams on the forum, they will help with a diagnosis of the fault as I don't know the machine.. It sounds to me as though some wiring has become dislodged during transporting.

 

[illumaphonium]

Yeah I agree that something must have come loose in transit - it ran before that!


...So I've been round with a continuity tester and found various faults. I've not tested the machine yet as it's in back of a luton van on my driveway. I'll take it to some 3 phase later...

The main off button had a loose wire so I tightened that.

One of the emergency stops had ittermittent continuity so I bypassed that.

The main contactor has a test button on the back side. One of the three phases (white wire) doesn't seem to contact - assuming it is a test button, I can't imagine what else it could be. In the photo what I think is the test button is just above the printed number '43'. The other two wires (red & black) give continuity when I press this button.

Interestingly what I also assume to be a test button on the thermal cut out (to the right of the contactor) doesn't do anything, but the unit has continuity so this can't be the cause of the no-running problem.

It looks like a need a new contactor I guess?

 

[Johnwa]

The white wire on the contactor appears to be a phase wire, if it is open circuit when the contactor is operated then yes you need a new contactor. On the bottom of the contactor are bare copper wires that connect to the overload unit, check the white wire on the top of the contactor to the bare copper wire opposite whilst operating the contactor, if you have continuity, that ruies out the contactor being faulty. Check then from the white wire on the top of the contactor to the outgoing wire on the bottom of the overload whilst operating the contactor, if there is no continuity then the overload unit us damaged. Again if you have a wiring diagram that will make it easier to diagnose your fault.

 

[illumaphonium]

Here's the wiring diagram that I have...

 

[Johnwa]

If you dont have continuity through the white wire contact and then through the overload, then therein lies your problem. Replace the contactor and overload unit. Just as an aside, is the brake releasing? That would cause the motor to stall.

 

[illumaphonium]

I realised that I never concluded this thread - for anyone else having a sililar prob.....

So in the end I took the machine to ALT machine spares in Birmingham - who are a Startrite specialist.
It turned out that the single phase to three phase convertor that I have connected it to had totally destroyed most of the electrics!
It needed two new motors as well as all the switch gear, contactor etc..... cost me £741! but now it runs real nice, so a happy ending.

The moral of this story is never buy something (the three phase convertor) without seeing it running....oh and never let a guy on ebay advise you to do the sale outside of ebay to make it cheaper - as you cant get your money back!!!!

 

[Jacob]

I realised that I never concluded this thread - for anyone else having a sililar prob.....

So in the end I took the machine to ALT machine spares in Birmingham - who are a Startrite specialist.
It turned out that the single phase to three phase convertor that I have connected it to had totally destroyed most of the electrics!
It needed two new motors as well as all the switch gear, contactor etc..... cost me £741! but now it runs real nice, so a happy ending.

The moral of this story is never buy something (the three phase convertor) without seeing it running....oh and never let a guy on ebay advise you to do the sale outside of ebay to make it cheaper - as you cant get your money back!!!!

Glad you got it sorted and thanks for the tip off!
I'll be going down the same route when I move soon, with my Minimax combi. What converter did you eventually buy?